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Can I still work here after Brexit?

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Can I still work here after Brexit?

Postby minipud » Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:28 pm

Hello, I'm looking for some advice as I'm struggling to find the right information.

The situation
  • My parents are UK Nationals and Spanish residents, they've recently been through the TIE residency process.
  • My London based company allows me to work remotely. Up until the Brexit deadline of 31 December 2020 I was able able to work in Spain at my parents property for short periods of time. On average that was probably about 20 working days spread across a 12 month period.
  • Due to the hell of 2020 I'd planned to work more often in Spain and spend time with my family more frequently, however I'd probably never pass 90 days in the country in a 12 month period.
  • Before the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement was signed my company had told me that working in Spain as a UK National would not be approved by them, however they also weren't aware my parents were Spanish residents when I spoke to them about it.
The questions
Now the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement has been approved and with my parents being Spanish residents:
  1. Am I able to legally work in Spain?
  2. If yes, how many days in a 12 month period?
Thanks in advanced for any answer to this, it has been a nightmare trying to find out and has been the cause of many family arguments!
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Re: Can I still work here after Brexit?

Postby Jillandsteve » Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:32 pm

From UK government Brexit website ( best visit it)
Working in Spain
If you were legally resident in Spain before 1 January 2021, you have the right to work, as long as you remain legally resident.

If you are planning to come to Spain to work, you may need a visa or permit. You should check with the Spanish Embassy in the UK.

To apply for a job, you may need to provide a:

UK criminal records certificate
Spanish criminal records certificate (Certificado de Antecedentes Penales)
certificate from the Spanish sex offenders registry (Certificado de Delitos de Naturaleza Sexual) to work with children
record of your employment history in Spain from Seguridad Social (a Vida Laboral certificate)
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Re: Can I still work here after Brexit?

Postby minipud » Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:44 pm

Thanks for the speedy reply!

I did check that out but it doesn't seem that clear to me, I am not a legal resident of Spain but my parents are.
Does that allow me the same rights they have to work?
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Re: Can I still work here after Brexit?

Postby blingle » Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:03 pm

No, you do not have the same rights.

Otherwise, thousands of people would be streaming into Spain just because their parents are resident.

At the moment, you would not be allowed to travel, as YOU are not resident (and do not have a TIE card)...although I think that if you HAVE to work in Spain (which isn't the case), then you MAY be allowed to travel for that reason (although I'm not sure about that - it might be that the Spanish wouldn't allow you in).
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Re: Can I still work here after Brexit?

Postby CharlieFarmer » Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:03 pm

To be crystal clear your parents standing as residents neither bestows or infers any rights to you or anyone.

If you want to come to Spain and work, for ANY number of days, then you will have to apply for a work visa.
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Re: Can I still work here after Brexit?

Postby 1foot4ward » Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:21 pm

If you are a U.K. resident, being paid by a U.K. firm, I don’t see the issue here, what you are talking about is “remote working”, nobody is going to have an issue if you work from any location.....

Obviously you have the EU 90 Day rule to think about, wide of that I wouldn’t honestly worry yourself
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Re: Can I still work here after Brexit?

Postby Busters Mum » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:21 am

If you are working for a UK Company on a UK contract and they allow you to work remotely it doesn’t matter where you happen to be.
You are not ‘working in Spain’. You’re just visiting your parents and working remotely. You’re not taxed in Spain. The only rules that apply are the 90 day rule which you say you won’t be breaking anyway.
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Re: Can I still work here after Brexit?

Postby minipud » Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:00 pm

Thanks all for your considered replies!

I think the polarised views of the responses goes to show how difficult it has been to find the right information on this matter.

Just to be clear, although some of you have stated this already:
  1. I am a UK National, and will remain as such
  2. I live in the UK, no intentions of moving to Spain
  3. My company is UK based, although operates globally
  4. My head office is in London, although I am often working in our Portugal office
  5. My contract is London based, allowing for remote work of up to 45 days in another location
This last point is crucial because the contract allows remote work based on "employment law, immigration and tax implications" that "the employee is responsible for obtaining and evidencing the necessary immigration approvals at their own cost".

As one of you have pointed out, the 'working in Spain' I mentioned in my first post is purely a location choice as my parents are here.

To use a crude example, I'm not coming to Spain as a painter and decorator and hoping to do a few quick contracts for the local residents, I'm working remotely for my UK based company on the same projects I'd work on if I were in the office in London.

This is allowed under my contract given that I'm within the laws of that country, which I'm struggling to know if I am or not given the Brexit situation!

Thanks again, super useful.
minipud
 
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Re: Can I still work here after Brexit?

Postby CharlieFarmer » Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:54 pm

The basic fact which underlies everything is that if you come to Spain as a tourist then legally you cannot perform ANY work for ANYONE - period.

Brexit has not changed that.

Your contract with your UK employer has no meaning in Spain, it's a matter purely between you and them.

I say once again that the fact of your parents being resident in Spain counts for absolutely nothing.

All that said for what you propose nobody is going to know or care so have at it!
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Re: Can I still work here after Brexit?

Postby oadbyman » Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:37 pm

I think most people would assume that remote working on the internet from anywhere is still remote working and not be a problem.

Brexit does change thing, before you had the right to move freely within the EU, and your work is being done in the UK.

After I retired I was offered some work programming and manipulating data into useable form, all on-line, I did this from home in UK and from Spain, all taxed in UK as the real computers I was working on were (as far as I know) in the UK base, I personal never considered I was working in Spain, I held an EU passport.

The differences are your contact states the right to work remotely is based on "employment law, immigration and tax implications" that "the employee is responsible for obtaining and evidencing the necessary immigration approvals at their own cost".

This put the legal responsibility on you.

I do not see this work as materially at any other location than your company in UK or Portugal, it is remote working and in fact the company do not know where you are Toronto, Taggagona, Torquay or Timpukto, if you were to become resident then I can understand a problem.

If as people are saying you are actually working in Spain and need all the right permissions etc, if every one who did (some) work while in the EU got all the right permissions then the system would crash. A work email, of dealing with urgent maters on the laptop they are strictly work.

I remember I therefore worked on a trip to Australia, my position required me to be aware of what was happening in the UK while I was on an extended Holiday.

My conclusion is that even if they knew or did work on your laptop in Spain the Spanish government world not be bothered as you are taxed in the UK, your company may accept this.

Best of luck.
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