Join Talk Quesada
Welcome to Talk Quesada! My name's Alex and this is my website all about Ciudad Quesada in Spain. Talk Quesada is free to sign up and use so register below!
Fiscal residency
Discuss your questions about the EU and Brexit and what it means for Quesada and Spain
Re: Fiscal residency
by Shiva » Wed May 08, 2019 7:25 pm
marcliff wrote:I filled in a P85 and sent it to HMRC with a letter informing them that I would now be resident in Spain.
.
Marcliff do you put the date of changing tax residency as the date you were registered on the residents register or the date you hit the 184 days for the first time? Eg I obtained the green residency card at the beginning of March but I won't hit the 184 days in this Spanish Tax year till well past July..
Have been assuming for tidiness sake to do tax returns for UK ( to 6 April 2019) and pay up as per normal and then go through the process of registering with the Spanish authorities while informing HMRC you no longer tax resident in UK? And finding it a bit hard to get my head round how one handles the changeover given that I gather Spain doesn't do split year treatment. Obviously I don't want to pay twice, assume that the first Spanish tax return would give me credit for the tax paid up to April 2019?
Mind you I will still have to do two tax returns on an ongoing basis as I will continue to have UK based income which has to be taxable in UK. Ugh. I feel a headache coming on.
-
Shiva - Posts: 1566
- Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 12:46 pm
- Gender: Female
Re: Fiscal residency
by elchedave » Wed May 08, 2019 8:18 pm
Jonnno wrote:Are there any other fiscal residents around here? That means u pay ur taxes here but dont want to become resident.
I have been told that I now need a number to be classed as a fiscal resident but I can only get that number by applying for full residency.
Anyone else experienced that?
Jonnno, as others have stated, you cannot legally choose residency or not. You live here 183 days or more per year & like it or not you are resident, you must declare & pay your taxes here in Spain & by default you should apply for your Residencia. There have been & still are, hundreds if not thousands of people still "living under the radar" but the net is closing on them & with the (dare i mention) Brexit scenario things will probably become much more difficult for so called "illegals"
You will no doubt get conflicting advice from various sources but at the end of the day you will do what you think best.
Regards & good luck,
Dave
- elchedave
- Posts: 1448
- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:31 am
- Which part of Spain are you from?: Guardamar
- Gender: Male
Re: Fiscal residency
by marcliff » Wed May 08, 2019 8:26 pm
Shiva wrote:marcliff wrote:I filled in a P85 and sent it to HMRC with a letter informing them that I would now be resident in Spain.
.
Marcliff do you put the date of changing tax residency as the date you were registered on the residents register or the date you hit the 184 days for the first time? Eg I obtained the green residency card at the beginning of March but I won't hit the 184 days in this Spanish Tax year till well past July..
Have been assuming for tidiness sake to do tax returns for UK ( to 6 April 2019) and pay up as per normal and then go through the process of registering with the Spanish authorities while informing HMRC you no longer tax resident in UK? And finding it a bit hard to get my head round how one handles the changeover given that I gather Spain doesn't do split year treatment. Obviously I don't want to pay twice, assume that the first Spanish tax return would give me credit for the tax paid up to April 2019?
Mind you I will still have to do two tax returns on an ongoing basis as I will continue to have UK based income which has to be taxable in UK. Ugh. I feel a headache coming on.
I put down the date we became residents. However ,that was the in January so we had the full year in Spain. UK HMRC gave me 3 months tax rebate and I received it about the end of September that year. Because my main pension is a government one taxed at source and I wasn't in receipt of the state pension then, I didn't pay any taxes in Spain the next year even though I declared the rebate.
We also sold our property in UK in December one year and became residents in January the next year to avoid any taxes on that score.
-
marcliff - Posts: 9694
- Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:41 pm
- Location: Doña Pepa 2
- Which part of Spain are you from?: Dona Pepa 2
- Gender: Male
Re: Fiscal residency
by dewicymro » Thu May 09, 2019 9:29 am
Here's my perspective as someone who's just filed their taxes in Spain for the first time this week:
As others have said, if you're resident in Spain for more than 183 days in any calendar year, you're treated as fiscally resident in Spain for the whole of that year, so the date on which you become fiscally resident is 1 January of that year, regardless of when you actually hit the 183 day limit.
In the UK it's more complicated. HMRC now have a Statutory Residence Test. Here's a link: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 078500.pdf (Warning: only open this document if you have several hours to spare!) It seems to me that if you spend time in both countries you could be judged to be fiscally resident in Spain and also caught by HMRC's SRT and be tax resident in the UK at the same time. If that happens, there is a Double Taxation Treaty which means you should never end up having to pay tax on the same income twice.
When you file your first tax return in Spain you also submit an HMRC form Spain-Individual https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... vidual.pdf This gets stamped by the tax authority in Spain to prove that you've submitted your tax return here, then gets sent to HMRC and this will generate the appropriate refund of UK income tax and get your UK income paid without deduction of tax (apart from some Government-funded pensions to which this doesn't apply). However it's likely that you will have to pay the first instalment of Spanish tax, due at the end of June, before you get the refund from HMRC so you will be out of pocket for a while.
Once you're through the first year it should get easier (or at least that's what I keep telling myself!)
Good luck!
As others have said, if you're resident in Spain for more than 183 days in any calendar year, you're treated as fiscally resident in Spain for the whole of that year, so the date on which you become fiscally resident is 1 January of that year, regardless of when you actually hit the 183 day limit.
In the UK it's more complicated. HMRC now have a Statutory Residence Test. Here's a link: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 078500.pdf (Warning: only open this document if you have several hours to spare!) It seems to me that if you spend time in both countries you could be judged to be fiscally resident in Spain and also caught by HMRC's SRT and be tax resident in the UK at the same time. If that happens, there is a Double Taxation Treaty which means you should never end up having to pay tax on the same income twice.
When you file your first tax return in Spain you also submit an HMRC form Spain-Individual https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... vidual.pdf This gets stamped by the tax authority in Spain to prove that you've submitted your tax return here, then gets sent to HMRC and this will generate the appropriate refund of UK income tax and get your UK income paid without deduction of tax (apart from some Government-funded pensions to which this doesn't apply). However it's likely that you will have to pay the first instalment of Spanish tax, due at the end of June, before you get the refund from HMRC so you will be out of pocket for a while.
Once you're through the first year it should get easier (or at least that's what I keep telling myself!)
Good luck!
- dewicymro
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:56 am
- Which part of Spain are you from?: Quesada
- Gender: Male
Re: Fiscal residency
by DTR » Thu May 09, 2019 10:09 am
Why don't you just go and ask a Fiscal Lawyer? Then you'll know ....
- DTR
- Posts: 829
- Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:29 pm
- Which part of Spain are you from?: Quesada
- Gender: Male
Re: Fiscal residency
by blingle » Thu May 09, 2019 11:29 am
...or ask your accountant.
Asking on a forum is just asking for multiple differing answers.
Asking on a forum is just asking for multiple differing answers.
-
blingle - Posts: 626
- Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:01 pm
- Which part of Spain are you from?: Guardamar
- Gender: Female
Re: Fiscal residency
by Jonnno » Thu May 09, 2019 12:33 pm
Both good suggestions unfortunately dilemma has been caused by difference of opinion between accountant and residencia specialist
- Jonnno
- Posts: 1326
- Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:16 pm
- Which part of Spain are you from?: Marquesa
- jpeg
- Posts: 9269
- Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:24 am
- Which part of Spain are you from?: Dolores
- Gender: Male
Re: Fiscal residency
by Jonnno » Thu May 09, 2019 1:01 pm
Have lived in Spain for 12 years - oh that life was so simple when listening to advice from professionals!
- Jonnno
- Posts: 1326
- Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:16 pm
- Which part of Spain are you from?: Marquesa
Re: Fiscal residency
by jpeg » Thu May 09, 2019 1:04 pm
Living in Spain for 12 years does not make you an expert ,I have been here over 40 years but I would not call myself an expert on living in Spain
- jpeg
- Posts: 9269
- Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:24 am
- Which part of Spain are you from?: Dolores
- Gender: Male
Page 2 of 2 • 1, 2
20 posts
• Page 2 of 2 • 1, 2
Related topics
-
- Similar Topics
- Replies
- Views
- Last post
-
-
Santander "Communicacion de Residencia Fiscal a la admin"
by wilsonm10 » Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:01 pm in Quesada general discussion - 1
- 200
-
by Bee
Mon Feb 12, 2024 6:40 pm
-
Santander "Communicacion de Residencia Fiscal a la admin"
-
-
Leaving Spain during Temporary Residency
by marcliff » Tue Aug 01, 2023 7:44 pm in After Brexit and the EU: Living, holidaying and moving to Spain - 1
- 497
-
by Darro
Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:40 am
-
Leaving Spain during Temporary Residency
-
-
EU Update to TCN Long Term Residency Rules.
by Darro » Wed Dec 13, 2023 8:20 pm in Off topic - 0
- 196
-
by Darro
Wed Dec 13, 2023 8:20 pm
-
EU Update to TCN Long Term Residency Rules.
Return to After Brexit and the EU: Living, holidaying and moving to Spain
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests
Login
Find in Quesada
Quesada pages
Quesada discussion
- Quesada general discussion
- Banking and finances
- Broadband, Wifi, Phone and TV
- Buses and public transport in and around Quesada
- Driving to Spain / Car hire in Spain / Buying and owning a car in Spain
- Fiestas in Quesada
- Flights, baggage and airports
- Health services in Quesada
- Insurances and wills in Spain
- Items for sale and wanted in and around Quesada
- Interesting articles about Spain
- Jobs and careers in Quesada
- Lost and found in Quesada
- Market days
- Places to go for free Wi-Fi
- Recommended restaurants / cafes / bars
- Recommended Tradesmen and Companies
- Residency in Spain: padron, residencia and passport advice
- Safety / security information and property in Spain hints and tips
- Taxes in Spain: Suma, NIE and general tax advice
- Taxis in Quesada
- Things to do and places to go in and around Quesada
- Utilities in Spain: Electric, gas and water recommendations and advice
- Weather in Quesada
- Where to buy things in and around Quesada
- Where to hire things in and around Quesada
Properties discussion
Businesses and places in Quesada
- Bars and pubs in Quesada
- Beaches near Quesada
- Beauticians / Beauty salons in Quesada
- Bedding and soft furnishings shops in Quesada
- Butchers in Quesada
- Car dealers in Quesada: new and used car dealers
- Car garages, mechanics, tyre fitter centres in Quesada
- Car hire in Quesada
- DIY / Bricolage / Ferreteria stores in Quesada
- Equipment hire centers in Quesada
- Estate agents in Quesada
- Furniture shops in Quesada
- Garden centres and garden furniture shops in Quesada
- Golf Courses in Quesada
- Grills / gates / metal items shops in Quesada
- Hairdressers in Quesada
- Hotels, guest houses and bed and breakfasts in Quesada and nearby
- Internet service providers that cover Quesada
- Launderettes / dry cleaners in Quesada
- Markets in Quesada
- Medical / Health centers in Quesada
- Pet shops in Quesada
- Pharmacies / Chemist shops in Quesada
- Restaurants in Quesada
- Shopping centres in Quesada
- Sports centres and gyms in Quesada
- Supermarkets in Quesada
- Swimming pool services in Quesada
- Town Halls (Ayuntamientos) in Quesada
- Waterparks/Aquaparks in Quesada
- TalkQuesada » Board index
- The team • Delete all board cookies • All times are UTC [ DST ]
- Our other websites:
- Costa Blanca forum
- Costa Calida forum
- Costa del Sol forum
- Costa de Almeria forum
- Costa de la Luz forum
- Costa Dorada forum
- Costa Brava forum
- UK forum
- Jobs in the UK
- Our policies:
- Privacy policy
- User agreement
- Content policy
- Website created and operated by JSM Forum Websites