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Information regarding a No Deal Brexit Contingency Plans
Discuss your questions about the EU and Brexit and what it means for Quesada and Spain
Information regarding a No Deal Brexit Contingency Plans
by Espanabums » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:50 pm
https://eurocitizens2020.blogspot.com/2 ... gency.html
Here is some information that was published, see above link, by the group EuroCitizens, from a meeting they had in Madrid with the Foreign Ministry, the Interior Ministry and Presidencía. It is subject to confirmation and a Ley being made in early March.
These are the questions asked and the replies given. Pay particular attention to number 6 on healthcare.
1. A generous 'period of grace' for registration
Sufficient time will be given, in the event of a hard Brexit, for UK residents to register as third-country nationals.
The length of this 'transition' period is not definite yet, but it will be sufficient and will also depend on the effective date on which the UK leaves the EU.
2. How to register as a third-country national
a) Information for registered Britons:
After 29/03/19 your existing EU document
(your registration certificate or residence card as a family member of an EU citizen)
will continue to be valid
until the end of the period of grace
even though you are no longer an EU citizen
.
During this period, you will have to apply for new third-country ID, a Tarjeta de Identificación de Extranjeros (TIE). The procedure for granting this new status will be ‘practically automatic’ for legally resident UK citizens. Both the long transition period and the simplified nature of the process
are similar to the contingency measures of other EU 27 countries which is promising,
though we will need to see all the details: the application form, the cost, help provided for vulnerable groups etc. Our interlocutors at the ministries also promised that extra resources would be dedicated to immigration staff (at oficinas de extranjería and
comisarias
)
in provinces with large British populations.
b) Information for
non-registered Britons resident before Brexit:
If you and all your family members are not yet registered, eg if you have recently arrived, you should immediatelyapply at a foreigner’s office (oficina de extranjería)
or police station (comisaría)
for an EU citizen's resident document.
If you have been unable to formally submit your application or have not been given an appointment before the withdrawal date, eg, your appointment is given after that date, there will be a specific process for applying for the new third-country ID during the period of grace, as long as you can prove that you were residing in Spain before the 29 March.
So to sum up:
- If you apply for your EU citizen's resident document before 29 March (or the effective date on which the UK leaves the EU),
your application will be considered under the same conditions as current legal UK residents.
- If you are resident but have been unable to formally apply for an EU citizen's resident document before 29 March (or the effective date on which the UK leaves the UE), you will have to apply directly for the new third-country ID during the period of grace. However, the requirements stipulated by the new law, (that enables no-deal Brexit measures in Spain), will be similar to those for an EU citizen. Your application will be processed through a specific process which will be less demanding than the general residence process for all other third-country nationals.
In all of the above situations, during the period of grace, your residence in Spain will be considered legal.
c) Britons arriving in Spain after Brexit day:
Applications for people arriving after 29 March will be processed in the same way as those for all other third-country nationals, with the corresponding requirements which are considerably more demanding than those for EU citizens, especially for non-working people. It is also important to point out that, if the UK leaves the EU with no agreement, British citizens who are not registered as residents will, like all other third-country nationals, only be allowed to spend 90 days in any one six-month period and that their exit and entry will be controlled at ports and airports to enforce this.
3. New documentation
Your new ID card (TIE) will be biometric and will be valid throughout Spain and for travel within the EU-27 along with a passport. The document will accredit your status as legally-resident third-country nationals (under the régimen general de extranjeros as opposed to our current situation under the régimen de ciudadanos de la UE). If you have more than five years of legal residence, you will be able to get long-term residence (residencia de larga duración). If you have less than five years legal residence, you will be able to apply, under the same conditions, for long-term residence after Brexit once you have completed five years residence.
4. Working after Brexit
If you are employed (por cuenta ajena) or self-employed (por cuenta propia), you will be able to continue working as now. If you have exercised a profession using UK qualifications before 29/03/19, you will be able to continue to do so. If you are a Spanish civil servant (funcionario) with British nationality, you will be able to continue your employment even though you are no longer an EU citizen.
5. Social security coordination
On 30 March, automatic coordination of social security between the UK and the EU will end. Thus there will have to be a new bilateral agreement covering this area between Spain and the UK or between de the EU and the UK. This would enable existing social security rights and aggregated pensions to be recognised for Spaniards in the UK and Britons in Spain.
6. Healthcare
The existing S1 scheme and EHIC card will also stop automatically in the event of a hard Brexit. A new agreement between Spain and the UK will have to be reached which reflects the true costs of the healthcare for the roughly 77,000 British UK pensioners in Spain compared with the mere hundreds of Spanish pensioners in Britain (to maintain access to public health for UK nationals as now).
Conclusion
One of the most difficult things to deal with for UK residents since the Brexit vote has been the lack of certainty about our futures. Now at least we know that, despite a Brexit cliff-edge, in Spain there will be a lengthy transition period and potentially simple administrative procedures to enable us to bridge the sad transition from European citizens to third-country nationals. We would like to thank again the civil servants who met us on 6 February, worked with us on this document and indeed who have engaged fully with us since the triggering of Article 50 nearly two years ago.
Here is some information that was published, see above link, by the group EuroCitizens, from a meeting they had in Madrid with the Foreign Ministry, the Interior Ministry and Presidencía. It is subject to confirmation and a Ley being made in early March.
These are the questions asked and the replies given. Pay particular attention to number 6 on healthcare.
1. A generous 'period of grace' for registration
Sufficient time will be given, in the event of a hard Brexit, for UK residents to register as third-country nationals.
The length of this 'transition' period is not definite yet, but it will be sufficient and will also depend on the effective date on which the UK leaves the EU.
2. How to register as a third-country national
a) Information for registered Britons:
After 29/03/19 your existing EU document
(your registration certificate or residence card as a family member of an EU citizen)
will continue to be valid
until the end of the period of grace
even though you are no longer an EU citizen
.
During this period, you will have to apply for new third-country ID, a Tarjeta de Identificación de Extranjeros (TIE). The procedure for granting this new status will be ‘practically automatic’ for legally resident UK citizens. Both the long transition period and the simplified nature of the process
are similar to the contingency measures of other EU 27 countries which is promising,
though we will need to see all the details: the application form, the cost, help provided for vulnerable groups etc. Our interlocutors at the ministries also promised that extra resources would be dedicated to immigration staff (at oficinas de extranjería and
comisarias
)
in provinces with large British populations.
b) Information for
non-registered Britons resident before Brexit:
If you and all your family members are not yet registered, eg if you have recently arrived, you should immediatelyapply at a foreigner’s office (oficina de extranjería)
or police station (comisaría)
for an EU citizen's resident document.
If you have been unable to formally submit your application or have not been given an appointment before the withdrawal date, eg, your appointment is given after that date, there will be a specific process for applying for the new third-country ID during the period of grace, as long as you can prove that you were residing in Spain before the 29 March.
So to sum up:
- If you apply for your EU citizen's resident document before 29 March (or the effective date on which the UK leaves the EU),
your application will be considered under the same conditions as current legal UK residents.
- If you are resident but have been unable to formally apply for an EU citizen's resident document before 29 March (or the effective date on which the UK leaves the UE), you will have to apply directly for the new third-country ID during the period of grace. However, the requirements stipulated by the new law, (that enables no-deal Brexit measures in Spain), will be similar to those for an EU citizen. Your application will be processed through a specific process which will be less demanding than the general residence process for all other third-country nationals.
In all of the above situations, during the period of grace, your residence in Spain will be considered legal.
c) Britons arriving in Spain after Brexit day:
Applications for people arriving after 29 March will be processed in the same way as those for all other third-country nationals, with the corresponding requirements which are considerably more demanding than those for EU citizens, especially for non-working people. It is also important to point out that, if the UK leaves the EU with no agreement, British citizens who are not registered as residents will, like all other third-country nationals, only be allowed to spend 90 days in any one six-month period and that their exit and entry will be controlled at ports and airports to enforce this.
3. New documentation
Your new ID card (TIE) will be biometric and will be valid throughout Spain and for travel within the EU-27 along with a passport. The document will accredit your status as legally-resident third-country nationals (under the régimen general de extranjeros as opposed to our current situation under the régimen de ciudadanos de la UE). If you have more than five years of legal residence, you will be able to get long-term residence (residencia de larga duración). If you have less than five years legal residence, you will be able to apply, under the same conditions, for long-term residence after Brexit once you have completed five years residence.
4. Working after Brexit
If you are employed (por cuenta ajena) or self-employed (por cuenta propia), you will be able to continue working as now. If you have exercised a profession using UK qualifications before 29/03/19, you will be able to continue to do so. If you are a Spanish civil servant (funcionario) with British nationality, you will be able to continue your employment even though you are no longer an EU citizen.
5. Social security coordination
On 30 March, automatic coordination of social security between the UK and the EU will end. Thus there will have to be a new bilateral agreement covering this area between Spain and the UK or between de the EU and the UK. This would enable existing social security rights and aggregated pensions to be recognised for Spaniards in the UK and Britons in Spain.
6. Healthcare
The existing S1 scheme and EHIC card will also stop automatically in the event of a hard Brexit. A new agreement between Spain and the UK will have to be reached which reflects the true costs of the healthcare for the roughly 77,000 British UK pensioners in Spain compared with the mere hundreds of Spanish pensioners in Britain (to maintain access to public health for UK nationals as now).
Conclusion
One of the most difficult things to deal with for UK residents since the Brexit vote has been the lack of certainty about our futures. Now at least we know that, despite a Brexit cliff-edge, in Spain there will be a lengthy transition period and potentially simple administrative procedures to enable us to bridge the sad transition from European citizens to third-country nationals. We would like to thank again the civil servants who met us on 6 February, worked with us on this document and indeed who have engaged fully with us since the triggering of Article 50 nearly two years ago.
Steve & Jill, Torrevieja
-
Espanabums - Posts: 1067
- Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:28 pm
- Which part of Spain are you from?: Torrevieja Centro
- Gender: Male
Re: Information regarding a No Deal Brexit Contingency Plans
by garysl » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:06 pm
It seems that those of us that live here, legally, will be fine. A different card to apply for, but that's fair enough. It's a different story though, if you want to come over here for more than 90 days in 6 months, or you've bought somewhere here with a view to retiring in a couple of years. I remember those Brexit threads from the time of the referendum. People bought houses in Spain and retired here before they joined the EU and it will be no different afterwards. That seemed to be a common theme. Then again, it's still speculation. We could still end up with a deal like Norway has. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility.
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Re: Information regarding a No Deal Brexit Contingency Plans
by mondo » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:19 am
I am happy the Gov keeps us informed... but there is still no clarity on what will happen to expats... a bit worrying if you are thinking of spending a lot of money on a house...
Still, it has only been two and a half years...
-
.
Still, it has only been two and a half years...
-
.
- mondo
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Re: Information regarding a No Deal Brexit Contingency Plans
by Dsj » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:59 am
So does this mean a UK citizen who stays for say five continuous months, should even before Brexit have a Temporary Residence card in addition to an NIE ? .... confused ....
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Re: Information regarding a No Deal Brexit Contingency Plans
by TonTri » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:07 am
Dsj wrote:So does this mean a UK citizen who stays for say five continuous months, should even before Brexit have a Temporary Residence card in addition to an NIE ? .... confused ....
I don't think you can get a temporary residence card, I looked at all this a couple of months ago as we stay 5 months over the winter. I think we may need to apply for a visa each time we want to stay if it's over 3 months but I really can't be sure.
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TonTri - Posts: 2631
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Re: Information regarding a No Deal Brexit Contingency Plans
by Espanabums » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:40 am
Dsj wrote:So does this mean a UK citizen who stays for say five continuous months, should even before Brexit have a Temporary Residence card in addition to an NIE ? .... confused ....
As a UK citizen and whilst we are in the EU, you are supposed to register for "Residencia", which is actually affixing your name to the register of foreign EU nationals held in Madrid, after 90 days of living in Spain.
If, however, you have no wish to live in Spain permanently, most people do not register and the Spanish Government turns a blind eye.
Your NIE is nothing to do with residency, it is just an identification number, just like the UK National Insurance number, that is issued by Spain and stays with you for life, does not alter and does not expire.
When UK leaves the EU, UK citizens will be classed as 3rd country nationals, much like Americans and Australians are now. Your passports on entry and exit may be subject to greater scrutiny. As a UK citizen you will be allowed visa free access to Schengen area for 90 days out of every six months only. If you drive to Spain through France this will eat into the 90 days and you will be allowed less time actually in Spain.
The Spanish Government are talking about, only talks at this stage, having the option of a simple form to apply for an extension of this visa free travel to accommodate those people who spend more than 3 months but less than 6 months per year in Spain.
Steve & Jill, Torrevieja
-
Espanabums - Posts: 1067
- Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:28 pm
- Which part of Spain are you from?: Torrevieja Centro
- Gender: Male
Re: Information regarding a No Deal Brexit Contingency Plans
by PeteKnight » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:54 am
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Re: Information regarding a No Deal Brexit Contingency Plans
by TonTri » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:24 am
Espanabums. Hopefully the talks of an extension visa will materialise into fact. With the number of British pensioners who overwinter in Spain I am sure the Spanish won't want to lose that revenue.
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TonTri - Posts: 2631
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Re: Information regarding a No Deal Brexit Contingency Plans
by Dsj » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:54 am
Espansbums. So on the basis of what is currently known and worst case assuming the visa extension idea does not happen, would it be prudent for people who overwinter (5 month stays) to register for "Residencia" now even though we will be in Spain for less than 6 months in the calendar year and thus not fiscally resident in Spain?
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Re: Information regarding a No Deal Brexit Contingency Plans
by Espanabums » Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:54 am
Dsj wrote: Espansbums. So on the basis of what is currently known and worst case assuming the visa extension idea does not happen, would it be prudent for people who overwinter (5 month stays) to register for "Residencia" now even though we will be in Spain for less than 6 months in the calendar year and thus not fiscally resident in Spain?
Once Britain has Left EU, British citizens will no longer be eligible for "residencia" as this card is solely for the use of citizens of EU member countries. If they wish to reside in Spain post Brexit they will have to apply for a TIE, Tarjeta Identidad de Extranjero, this application has more stringent income requirements than for "Residencia".
If you really only do want to have holidays in Spain longer than 3 months and less than 6 months and the extension to the visitor´s visa does not happen then you will have to fly by the seat of your pants.
There may be consequences to overstaying your 3 months, probably a longer time limit before you can return; or the passport control officers may not even notice or turn a blind eye depending on how long you overstay your 90 days. This situation will only be finalised and may depend on whether we have a no deal Brexit.
If Brexit happens without a deal, then there is probably not enough time to apply for a "residencia" before 29 March in any case. Those people without one and have been living under the radar for years will have to provide proof of living in Spain if they want to take the easy route to TIE that is outlined in my original post.
Steve & Jill, Torrevieja
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Espanabums - Posts: 1067
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