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Ring-Fencing of UK Banks
Ring-Fencing of UK Banks
by bbrich » Wed May 30, 2018 2:19 pm
Any of you having fun trying to prove where you live - or don't live, if you see what I mean?
There's something happening to the UK banking system called Ring Fencing. Basically the banks are no longer allowed by the Government to operate on-shore and off-shore at the same time. Isle-of-Man, Jersey, etc. They have to be broken into two parts. UK and International, and you can't bank with both of them at the same time. All of this has to be sorted out by 1 Jan 2019.
So, basically, if you don't "live" in the UK (strictly speaking) you're no longer entitled to UK On-Shore banking or UK-based Credit Cards.
We're a couple from Manchester who've been working in the Middle East for the past thirty-odd years and we're now planning to buy in Spain this year - ready for a well-earned retirement. We've banked with the off-shore arm of a high-street British bank since the mid-eighties. Last year, out of the blue, they decided that we were now UK Resident because we've got a house there. A house which they've known about since 1987. It took a year and probably cost me 150-quid in courier costs and international phone calls to get it sorted.
When they were finally happy that we actually did still reside in the Middle East we thought it was over. But no. The next thing we received were emails from their famous Visa-based credit card arm telling us that our cards had been cancelled, with the explanation that "since you live in a foreign country or overseas territory we are no longer able to service your accounts".
I've spoken to both the bank and the credit card people and they assure me that its the Government who are making them do it to prevent another banking collapse like 2007 - to protect the man in the street in the UK.
And I've just received an email from that same bank telling me that they've sent me a new Debit Card for the same reasons. Heaven knows where they've sent it to because they won't deal with my UK address anymore and I certainly won't receive it here in the Middle East - there's no postal system.
At the same time we've also got the TIN (Tax Identification Number) system being applied world-wide which can "muddy" the waters a bit.
So we'll be arriving in Quesada in just under three weeks with the possibility that none of our cards will be working. Anybody lend us a tenner?
BB
There's something happening to the UK banking system called Ring Fencing. Basically the banks are no longer allowed by the Government to operate on-shore and off-shore at the same time. Isle-of-Man, Jersey, etc. They have to be broken into two parts. UK and International, and you can't bank with both of them at the same time. All of this has to be sorted out by 1 Jan 2019.
So, basically, if you don't "live" in the UK (strictly speaking) you're no longer entitled to UK On-Shore banking or UK-based Credit Cards.
We're a couple from Manchester who've been working in the Middle East for the past thirty-odd years and we're now planning to buy in Spain this year - ready for a well-earned retirement. We've banked with the off-shore arm of a high-street British bank since the mid-eighties. Last year, out of the blue, they decided that we were now UK Resident because we've got a house there. A house which they've known about since 1987. It took a year and probably cost me 150-quid in courier costs and international phone calls to get it sorted.
When they were finally happy that we actually did still reside in the Middle East we thought it was over. But no. The next thing we received were emails from their famous Visa-based credit card arm telling us that our cards had been cancelled, with the explanation that "since you live in a foreign country or overseas territory we are no longer able to service your accounts".
I've spoken to both the bank and the credit card people and they assure me that its the Government who are making them do it to prevent another banking collapse like 2007 - to protect the man in the street in the UK.
And I've just received an email from that same bank telling me that they've sent me a new Debit Card for the same reasons. Heaven knows where they've sent it to because they won't deal with my UK address anymore and I certainly won't receive it here in the Middle East - there's no postal system.
At the same time we've also got the TIN (Tax Identification Number) system being applied world-wide which can "muddy" the waters a bit.
So we'll be arriving in Quesada in just under three weeks with the possibility that none of our cards will be working. Anybody lend us a tenner?
BB
- bbrich
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Re: Ring-Fencing of UK Banks
by lexia » Wed May 30, 2018 5:56 pm
Loved reading your post. We have heard of this.! My other half also from Manchester and we live in Quesada. If you need that tenner you know where to come. Regards.
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Re: Ring-Fencing of UK Banks
by Rosslev21 » Wed May 30, 2018 6:44 pm
a tenner that's a bit extreme. you'd be able to kit your new house out in Quesada from one of the Chinese monster warehouses and still have enough for dinner for two and a bottle of wine in the Banana Tree
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Re: Ring-Fencing of UK Banks
by dottyp53 » Wed May 30, 2018 8:19 pm
For info - bbrich - ring fencing isn't about banks being allowed to operate onshore and offshore concurrently. The new rules mean large UK banks must separate personal banking services such as current and savings accounts, from risks in other parts of the business, like investment banking.
I know this as I am the project manager currently leading the ring fenced banking project for one of the major UK banks.
I know this as I am the project manager currently leading the ring fenced banking project for one of the major UK banks.
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Re: Ring-Fencing of UK Banks
by Ron Hill » Thu May 31, 2018 7:28 am
dottyp53 wrote:For info - bbrich - ring fencing isn't about banks being allowed to operate onshore and offshore concurrently. The new rules mean large UK banks must separate personal banking services such as current and savings accounts, from risks in other parts of the business, like investment banking.
I know this as I am the project manager currently leading the ring fenced banking project for one of the major UK banks.
I live in Spain and bank with Santander UK (separate Co from Santander Spain) I have my pensions paid into my UK bank and transfer funds to Spain as reqd. Am I going to be affected by this ring fencing?
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Re: Ring-Fencing of UK Banks
by sunworshipper » Thu May 31, 2018 10:53 am
dottyp53 wrote:For info - bbrich - ring fencing isn't about banks being allowed to operate onshore and offshore concurrently. The new rules mean large UK banks must separate personal banking services such as current and savings accounts, from risks in other parts of the business, like investment banking.
I know this as I am the project manager currently leading the ring fenced banking project for one of the major UK banks.
Please can you answer the question then :
If we live here in Spain , can we still have an UK bank account and UK debit and credit cards
.?
I still have a UK address for post but live in Spain. My UK bank has UK transactions and direct debits and standing orders still going through it.
Thank you.
Happy in the sun.
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sunworshipper - Posts: 1448
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Re: Ring-Fencing of UK Banks
by dottyp53 » Thu May 31, 2018 4:38 pm
[quote="sunworshipper"][quote="dottyp53"]For info - bbrich - ring fencing isn't about banks being allowed to operate onshore and offshore concurrently. The new rules mean large UK banks must separate personal banking services such as current and savings accounts, from risks in other parts of the business, like investment banking.
I know this as I am the project manager currently leading the ring fenced banking project for one of the major UK banks.[/quote]
Please can you answer the question then :
If we live here in Spain , can we still have an UK bank account and UK debit and credit cards
.?
I still have a UK address for post but live in Spain. My UK bank has UK transactions and direct debits and standing orders still going through it.
Thank you.[/quote]
Yes, you can...just as you can be resident in the UK and also have a Spanish bank account and Spanish cards.
Ring-fencing is more to do with separating off the "risky" areas of a Bank (ie. the non-regulated areas) from the seemingly less risky!
Did you know, for example, that although you have to jump through hoops to get some banking products in the UK, all it can sometimes take in areas such as the Channel Islands is to "know someone down the road"?!!!
Similarly...if changes are made to a credit agreement in the UK, official letters are sent out, along with modifying agreements. In the non-regulated zones, the local branch manager crossing bits out and rewriting bits on the agreement documentation will suffice!
You can understand why they're being ring fenced!!!
I know this as I am the project manager currently leading the ring fenced banking project for one of the major UK banks.[/quote]
Please can you answer the question then :
If we live here in Spain , can we still have an UK bank account and UK debit and credit cards
.?
I still have a UK address for post but live in Spain. My UK bank has UK transactions and direct debits and standing orders still going through it.
Thank you.[/quote]
Yes, you can...just as you can be resident in the UK and also have a Spanish bank account and Spanish cards.
Ring-fencing is more to do with separating off the "risky" areas of a Bank (ie. the non-regulated areas) from the seemingly less risky!
Did you know, for example, that although you have to jump through hoops to get some banking products in the UK, all it can sometimes take in areas such as the Channel Islands is to "know someone down the road"?!!!
Similarly...if changes are made to a credit agreement in the UK, official letters are sent out, along with modifying agreements. In the non-regulated zones, the local branch manager crossing bits out and rewriting bits on the agreement documentation will suffice!
You can understand why they're being ring fenced!!!
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Re: Ring-Fencing of UK Banks
by sunworshipper » Thu May 31, 2018 5:06 pm
Thank you dottyp53.
I thought the same as your answer . It did not seem correct that just because you didn't live in the UK , you could not have a UK bank account.
I thought the same as your answer . It did not seem correct that just because you didn't live in the UK , you could not have a UK bank account.
Happy in the sun.
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sunworshipper - Posts: 1448
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Re: Ring-Fencing of UK Banks
by marcliff » Thu May 31, 2018 5:34 pm
You can open a bank account with some banks in UK (or retain the one you had before you moved) as a resident in Spain.
The only ones I know which will allow you to open one are NatWest and Nationwide (probably others). You can complete the application for a EU citizen account online but Nationwide requires you to turn up in person whereas Natwest requires verified copies of passports and resident status.
However, when we moved here, I was told I would be unable to keep my UK credit card. Being naughty, I give my daughter's address in UK for that one.
I also had a problem with my current account in that I received a phishing email from someone that actually quoted my bank account number as in **" ** 1234 which worried me a little. I requested Natwest (who I've been banking with for nearly 50 years) to open a EU citizen current account for me and I would transfer from the account I have and close that one down. The reply was that under new rules, you are only allowed to open a foundation account and, as I already had an account, would be unable to open another one.
Not too happy with that as I explained the reason I wanted to do it but, no, new rules and all that.
I've since changed my e-mail address as some measure of security but still not happy someone could quote my bank account number.
The only ones I know which will allow you to open one are NatWest and Nationwide (probably others). You can complete the application for a EU citizen account online but Nationwide requires you to turn up in person whereas Natwest requires verified copies of passports and resident status.
However, when we moved here, I was told I would be unable to keep my UK credit card. Being naughty, I give my daughter's address in UK for that one.
I also had a problem with my current account in that I received a phishing email from someone that actually quoted my bank account number as in **" ** 1234 which worried me a little. I requested Natwest (who I've been banking with for nearly 50 years) to open a EU citizen current account for me and I would transfer from the account I have and close that one down. The reply was that under new rules, you are only allowed to open a foundation account and, as I already had an account, would be unable to open another one.
Not too happy with that as I explained the reason I wanted to do it but, no, new rules and all that.
I've since changed my e-mail address as some measure of security but still not happy someone could quote my bank account number.
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Re: Ring-Fencing of UK Banks
by Spannygranny » Thu May 31, 2018 6:14 pm
I bank with HSBC in Crewe, and have lived here for nearly 20 years, I don't have a UK address. I have an English Credit and Debit card and have no problems, they know I live here, my statements get sent here. I have a pension paid into HSBC and my state pension in La Caixa. UK pension is a teachers pension so gets taxed at source in the UK, state pension is sent directly to La Caixa and I declare that for Spanish tax.
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