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TV in a Community

Re: TV in a Community

Postby Glassfull » Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:50 am

jpeg wrote:Have you tried connecting another box to see if you get the channels that are missing



Yes, I have a second Humax Receiver and, that too, has the same hit or miss channels.
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Re: TV in a Community

Postby Babu » Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:20 pm

We have similar problem, on a much smaller community (22 properties). Our Community Satellite is fairly old system and works on a kind of co-axial daisy-chain setup which goes round the Community properties with a connector box at each place. The further round the community you are the weaker the signal(s) are and the less powerful Satellite stations start dropping off . . .we have an old Sky+ box and where we have HD channnels going missing we can usually get the SD channel instead as it is on a different transponder (I assume). As Paul said, the cabling is deteriorating over the years and replacement would be expensive and require approval from the Community for the expenditure . .
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Re: TV in a Community

Postby Paul - TV Techie » Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:05 pm

Glassfull wrote:Thank you Paul, for your lengthy reply.

One grievance, with not receiving the channels we once did and finding that other do, is that we all contributed €100 to the repair but, our equal investment has left us with an inequality.



I can understand that - but you also do have to understand, there are a number of variables on a community type system, which can affect signal or specific frequencies, differently onsite.

If someone has a property 20 metres from the dish and some is 'end of line' 150 metres from the dish - it is likely the end user will not have exactly the same at the nearer owner - it may be 99%, but that 1% or 1 frequency may be BBC Scotland (for example). Also with longer cable runs, there may be an amplifier in the middle somewhere to push the signal further, which itself will amplify the good signal, as well as any underlying noise/interference. The only way to be 100% equal, would be to have comparable cable run lengths which is not realistic on a community. Or have your own dish (shorter cable run).

As mentioned - I don't know what equipment you had fixed when serviced - but aside from the cable run lengths, there is the possibility of cable underground perished in places (if not replaced after a few years and damp underground) & also if new amplifiers or multi-switches (ports for individual connections) also can add a small amount of electrical noise, which has been know to randomly affect the odd frequency. Some of the equipment replaced might have been changed and a slight variation or outputs + long or perished cable run, any of these can make a difference.

Overall, it's a bit of a balancing act & quite a difficult one to do well and requires a more experienced technician than a single type dish installation.

My view is we are in Spain - and it wasn't so long ago, when there was a panic on when satellites changed and half of Spain (still) cannot get any English, Scottish or Irish satellite TV. If you live in Marbella, you need IPTV, as a practical sized satellite dish cannot be used.

So the fact in this location - that we can't get the odd free to air channel or the odd regional BBC, should be taken into context, of WE ARE QUITE LUCKY - as we are not supposed to be receiving the TV by satellite at all in Spain and do get all the main terrestrial UK channels for free.

It's a little annoying i'm sure - but we're in Spain ;-) A small trade off......


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Re: TV in a Community

Postby A.N.Other » Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:27 am

Sorry but I don't see this as a case of cable deterioration, damage perhaps but in that case it should have been detected and factored into the cost of the remedial work.

I've installed and worked on satellite distribution systems both on land, on offshore oil and gas rigs, and moving vessels with tracking dishes, and providing for anything from a handful to 100 or more users so I fully accept that there can be unexpected and unwelcome nuances but every problem is solvable.

€2000 is not a small bill for a repair to a 20 or so user system and given the baseline of what was being received before I don't think it's at all unreasonable for them to expect to be put back to the same position they had been in - or better.

Leaving a system with a performance inferior to what it had been before whatever happened happened is unprofessional and not a satsfactory repair in my book.
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Re: TV in a Community

Postby Glassfull » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:26 am

A.N.Other wrote:Sorry but I don't see this as a case of cable deterioration, damage perhaps but in that case it should have been detected and factored into the cost of the remedial work.

I've installed and worked on satellite distribution systems both on land, on offshore oil and gas rigs, and moving vessels with tracking dishes, and providing for anything from a handful to 100 or more users so I fully accept that there can be unexpected and unwelcome nuances but every problem is solvable.

€2000 is not a small bill for a repair to a 20 or so user system and given the baseline of what was being received before I don't think it's at all unreasonable for them to expect to be put back to the same position they had been in - or better.

Leaving a system with a performance inferior to what it had been before whatever happened happened is unprofessional and not a satsfactory repair in my book.



Thank you for that, it’s exactly as I feel about it. I cannot understand, in this day and age, that a stable and quality solution cannot be found. The comments about cable length, in my mind are spurious, to say the least. After all, blocks of flats are often served by one dish and, if cable length were an issue, ground floor flats would receive a degraded service when compared to the penthouse.

So, if blocks of flats can be supplied with a uniform service we’ll have that kit please and rather than a vertical installation, let’s lay it on its side and serve a community horizontaly.
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Re: TV in a Community

Postby Paul - TV Techie » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:00 pm

We are starting with the uneven signal on various frequency channels, not an even playing field, which is what you would start with in the UK. For example one BBC regional BBC1 could have a signal value of 70% of that of another - uneven. Hence the need and potential issues when balancing a large system & that's without factoring in cable runs, amplification placement.

Guessing system is not fibre - so if cable, then those comments are valid.

We are also in some instances dealing with localised microwave interference which a dish can accidentally pick up, then noise gets amplified through the system and this has been known to cause issues somewhere along the line. This I have seen a good few times.

My experience is working alongside all the technicians installing one of the Polaris world systems of over 2000 houses and around 15 other communities locally in the last 12 years. Which I feel probably qualifies me for a reasonable factually based opinion. We've also ripped out systems installed badly and rebuilt.

People often simplify & give their opinions - but often these things can be a little more technical and not so obvious as it would first appear, there are a number of things when dealing with fringe satellite reception.

A community free to air satellite system in the UK will not perform the same as an English satellite system in Spain - as certain frequencies are much weaker than others - so the act of balancing a system in Spain, which is designed to be received in the UK - gives you another set of problems to deal with.

Cable run distances and perishing comments are valid - as do have the potential to make a difference. This is not an opinion, this is a statement of fact. Coaxial cable. I am not saying these are the issues in the post mentioned, I am just stating these are theoretical possibilities, some or all of which may be part of the issue.

Perhaps we are not getting the 'full picture' here. Is it possible that the community did the works that their budget allowed (as opposed to ripping everything out and starting again) - and many people were having major problems (otherwise why spend 2k?) so they are 99% all fixed and happy, yet we have one person who is lacking 2 channels, but everyone else ok?

May be unrelated - we've had technicians called to a community which channel 5 seems to have disappeared, not sure if same community, but shows a little interference or something similar can be enough.

Seen a pool pump throw a signal into community TV electrics too - all sorts...



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Last edited by Paul - TV Techie on Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TV in a Community

Postby A.N.Other » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:20 pm

Nobody is disagreeing with you just making the point that if it worked before then it's improbable that cabling deteriorated whilst the system was down and therefore there should be no reason for it not to work equally after a proper repair.

I wonder how forthcoming the community would have been with the money if they'd been informed beforehand that they might not get all their channels back?
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Re: TV in a Community

Postby Paul - TV Techie » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:32 pm

But it didn't work before - which is why the community paid someone to review/fix.

Generally, speaking companies get paid when work signed off and working ok - so must (as an overall) be happy?

I also think as with all things if 99% of people happy - that'll do for most. It's nice to get 100% but it doesn't matter what business you are in, there's always one ;-)

As I said, there are also some factors which are less obvious - one example the satellites changed 3 or 4 years ago, so the signal that system received originally (and satellites it was receiving when installed - assuming over 3-4 years) has changed since it was first installed. This also may be part of why the signal was missing and system needed a going over - it's really not 'clear cut'.

You can't get the same signal if the satellites changed, not possible. Also, some channels have also changed frequencies, which are picked up with different often weaker signal strengths - so getting a specific channel back, which is weaker than it used to be, may not be possible unless altering amplification, which in turn may knock out a larger group of channels - hence potential compromise - 99%. Fringe reception changes things.



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Re: TV in a Community

Postby Glassfull » Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:21 pm

It’s fixed!

Paul,

There were many users who suffered a loss of channels following a repair that affected the whole estate.

Background

We all had all the channels before a catastrophic failure. The engineers diagnosed faulty kit whose replacement cost €2000. However, following the repair several properties found themselves without a few channels. All the channel 5 channels were missing along with some BBC 1 Regional channels and some HD channels.

There are three comms cabinets on the estate, the dish feeds cab 1, this is daisy chained to cab 2. All users fed from these two cabinets enjoyed the full range of channels. Cabinet 3 is daisy chained from cab 2 and, all cab 3 users had lost channels

Forgive me if my understanding of the technology isn’t too good but, today, an engineer called and noticed that two transponders were faulty. These were on the ‘Horizontal Low feed (HL)! The cabling proved OK and he came to the conclusion that the HL feed required amplification. Once an amplifier was inserted into that feed, all cab 3 users again enjoyed a full service.
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Re: TV in a Community

Postby Paul - TV Techie » Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:21 pm

Even the most minor changes to where amplification is placed can make the difference - glad sorted ;-)
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