Join Talk Quesada

Welcome to Talk Quesada! My name's Alex and this is my website all about Ciudad Quesada in Spain. Talk Quesada is free to sign up and use so register below!

Dignitas

Re: Dignitas

Postby polop » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:16 pm

I think there is no one here right or wrong, if you believe in helping someone pass on fine, if you don't that is fine, if you are the sort of person who could pull the plug then so be it, some people can some can't. In the end it's the person dying that needs if possible to give permission,, such as before getting to bad, once diagnosed been asked what would they want... Very hard for all and your conscience will be your guide..
User avatar
polop
 
Posts: 968
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:21 pm
Which part of Spain are you from?: La finca
Gender: Male

Re: Dignitas

Postby Chrisdee » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:23 pm

Another thing to consider is having Do not resuscitate put in place when you get to a certain age ?
User avatar
Chrisdee
 
Posts: 12208
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:36 pm
Which part of Spain are you from?: Torrevieja
Gender: Female

Re: Dignitas

Postby Petal » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:43 pm

I do believe that if a person has an uncurable or terminal illness, in pain, with so much suffering, then it should be their decision, no if's or but's, just respect their wishes to go with dignity.
Petal
 
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 5:30 pm
Which part of Spain are you from?: Gran Alacant

Re: Dignitas

Postby Paulr » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:35 pm

Benjy wrote:To be blunt here, the reason not to euthanise is simply selfishness by the friend or relatives. They don’t want to let them go, and I appreciate that feeling. BUT, the welfare and in most cases wishes of the patient is paramount and if they have expressed a strong wish to be allowed NOT to suffer, then this wish should be honoured. If on the other hand the patient expressed wishes NOTto be euthanised, then this should also be taken into account.



Blunt - and ignorant. To state that it's simply friends or relatives being "selfish" by keeping their loved one alive is crass, insensitive and a sweeping generalisation.

And as for TerryG, assuming that Mondo has never experienced losing a loved one, just because Mondo offered a different view, is arrogance in the supreme.

Mondo is as entitled to his opinion as the rest of you are - please try to remember that. It's because of people attacking the opinions of others that don't concur with your own, that make it impossible to have a national debate on the subject.

And before any of you feel like criticising my opinion, I've lost both my parents in the last 18 months and the circumstances and nature of their passing was as individual as every other person in this discussion. It's important to remember that fact, because until we can take out the emotion of our individual experiences, it will always be too hard to have a sensible debate on the matter.
User avatar
Paulr
 
Posts: 1122
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:52 am
Which part of Spain are you from?: Formentera
Gender: Male

Re: Dignitas

Postby Heid the ba » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:01 pm

And who put you in charge of dishing out the negatives on other people’s opinions? Respect all opinions, there is no right or wrong, it’s a touchy subject so mind your manners!
User avatar
Heid the ba
 
Posts: 156
Images: 0
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:32 am
Which part of Spain are you from?: Quesada
Gender: Male

Re: Dignitas

Postby Shiva » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:16 pm

Not sure why so many people doubling down on Mondo for expressing a perfectly legitimate point of view, particularly in his reservations concerning a 'slippery slope.' It is good to discuss the issue precisely because it affects so many people and it is very difficult emotionally as well as ethically and legally. The only way we as a society can try to carve out guidelines for legislation on what we want to be allowed or not is through discussion and debate and that means listening to different views.

I still personally don't know what I think is best; on the one hand it seems wrong that a suffering terminally ill person in full possession of their mental faculties does not have the right to end their own life as easily and painlessly as possible and to request help from neutral, willing, medical professionals to do so.

On the other I don't think this is a decision to be properly made by anyone else other than that individual acting freely ( and by freely I also mean not under psychological or emotional duress from relatives, which could happen, even well meaning or kind relatives never mind ones with less benign motives) . And medical professionals should be allowed to refuse to help if their conscience does not permit them or if they have any doubts about it being the person's own genuine wish ( and I personally don't think wishing to spare their relatives' feelings is sufficient. That could come under the category of emotional duress. The person has to themselves wish to die.)

But , as Mondo highlighted, once you start legislating for these situations it could become very difficult to draw the line. Eg do you limit it in law to terminally ill people only? What about chronically sick people in pain who are not terminally ill but say their life is not worth living? Or if relatives can't bear to see a person in suffering but the person is clinging on to life ? ( Again, relatives' feelings are NOT, imo, the most important thing here... your view of someone else's quality of life won't necessarily be theirs, etc. ) So many variables.

And yes I have been in these situations, having lost both parents to lingering and painful illness.

I have also had to have beloved pets put to sleep, one of them ( a 20 years old cat ) was actually still OK physically albeit frail but her brain completely gone with cat dementia and I thought it best even though she was physically managing. Taking a decision on behalf of your animals is one thing, but on behalf of another human being something else entirely.

If either of my parents had asked for help to go, I don't know what I or any of my siblings would have felt about it. As it was, they didn't and indeed my mother had strong religious beliefs that would have stopped her from doing so.

I can't help thinking that in some very very limited circumstances there should be the right for people to make a choice for themselves if they are still compos mentis but never, ever, should you be allowed to make a decision for someone else. And even the idea of ' living wills' is tricky, because how do we know that a person who once made one but who is now mentally not fully functioning would not have changed their mind? People can sometimes want to live to the last.

But these are issues that need to be thought about and talked about respectfully and I think the OP did a useful thing by raising it for discussion ( some folk may not think this is a very cheery forum topic, but then they can choose not to engage with it...)
User avatar
Shiva
 
Posts: 1566
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 12:46 pm
Gender: Female

Re: Dignitas

Postby Benjy » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:48 pm

Not arrogant paulr. I can’t think of any other valid reason for keeping someone alive, who is in great pain with no hope of survival and no quality of life. I wouldn’t want a member of my family (or yours) to suffer needlessly.
Benjy
 
Posts: 1227
Images: 0
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 10:36 pm
Which part of Spain are you from?: Murcia
Gender: Female

Re: Dignitas

Postby daz » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:18 pm

Benjy wrote:It seems strange mondo that you say, nope, but dogs are not people. So you would help alleviate a dogs suffering but not a persons. As I said before, it’s a strange world we live in.


Depends how much the dog is leaving me in it’s will, :text-lol:
daz
 
Posts: 721
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:53 pm
Which part of Spain are you from?: Entre Naranjos
Gender: Male

Re: Dignitas

Postby mondo » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:18 pm

Benjy wrote:Not arrogant paulr. I can’t think of any other valid reason for keeping someone alive, who is in great pain with no hope of survival and no quality of life. I wouldn’t want a member of my family (or yours) to suffer needlessly.



I am not talking about individuals.. I am saying that once it is lawful to kill people it makes the boundaries easier to move.

If we decide to take the life of someone in pain why would the pharmacy companies bother researching pain relief?

In my opinion we should be doing everything possible to alleviate pain, keep people comfortable, at home if possible, and let people die in peace when their time is due...

Killing people when they are ill seems to me like giving in.. when in reality society should be doing everything possible to preserve dignity in death.

Just my opinion of course.

.
mondo
 
Posts: 2776
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:05 am
Which part of Spain are you from?: Benimar
Gender: Male

Re: Dignitas

Postby Chrisdee » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:24 pm

But what if the person in pain makes that decision? My friends mum was in so much pain she stabbed herself in the heart with a carving knife. Some are at the end of their tether and do not want to be a burden for their remaining time.
User avatar
Chrisdee
 
Posts: 12208
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:36 pm
Which part of Spain are you from?: Torrevieja
Gender: Female

PreviousNext

Return to Off topic

 
 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 7 guests

Login
Username:


Password:


Remember me


Forgot password?

Register now

Find in Quesada
What are you looking for in Quesada?: