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Help with moving after Brexit
Re: Help with moving after Brexit
by marcliff » Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:19 pm
Nope, citizenship implies changing passport and nationality, etc, whereas being a citizen of the EU means you have permanent residency in that country.
The EU ruling applies to a resident in one EU country being able to take up residency in another EU country. Of course, you still have to meet the requirements of that country in order to take up residency there as would anyone moving from one EU country to another.
Not mixing up citizenship at all. The EU rules state:
"You are a long term EU resident if you have a long term residence permit in a EU country.
This is a permanent EU residence permit. If you have such a permit, you can move to another EU country more easily. Your resident permit must state "long term EU resident" or "permanent EU resident" in the language of the country issuing the permit."
No mention at all of citizenship and you are classed as a EU citizen if you hold such a permit.
EU Directive 2004/38/EC on the rights of a EU citizen (not a EU national) to move and freely reside within the territory of the member states.
Don't mix up the use of the word citizen (merely someone with permanent residency) with a EU National who has taken out the nationality of the country they reside in.
Also read the terms of the withdrawal agreement which states that all those resident in the EU before Brexit will retain the same rights on freedom of movement as a Spanish citizen.
The look at the requirements of the NLV which state that after 5 years residency you can change to permanent residency and obtain the same rights of free movement as a Spanish citizen.
None of them expect you to change your passport or nationality.
As a permanent resident in Spain, you would have to meet the same criteria as a Spanish national in order to take up residency in another EU country, hence why another poster said they could get an NLV from France after being a permanent resident there instead of doing it through a UK consulate.
The EU ruling applies to a resident in one EU country being able to take up residency in another EU country. Of course, you still have to meet the requirements of that country in order to take up residency there as would anyone moving from one EU country to another.
Not mixing up citizenship at all. The EU rules state:
"You are a long term EU resident if you have a long term residence permit in a EU country.
This is a permanent EU residence permit. If you have such a permit, you can move to another EU country more easily. Your resident permit must state "long term EU resident" or "permanent EU resident" in the language of the country issuing the permit."
No mention at all of citizenship and you are classed as a EU citizen if you hold such a permit.
EU Directive 2004/38/EC on the rights of a EU citizen (not a EU national) to move and freely reside within the territory of the member states.
Don't mix up the use of the word citizen (merely someone with permanent residency) with a EU National who has taken out the nationality of the country they reside in.
Also read the terms of the withdrawal agreement which states that all those resident in the EU before Brexit will retain the same rights on freedom of movement as a Spanish citizen.
The look at the requirements of the NLV which state that after 5 years residency you can change to permanent residency and obtain the same rights of free movement as a Spanish citizen.
None of them expect you to change your passport or nationality.
As a permanent resident in Spain, you would have to meet the same criteria as a Spanish national in order to take up residency in another EU country, hence why another poster said they could get an NLV from France after being a permanent resident there instead of doing it through a UK consulate.
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Re: Help with moving after Brexit
by marcliff » Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:26 pm
p.edwards6 wrote:We lived in France with full residency status for 14 years. At the end of 2021 we decided we would like to move to Spain.We contacted the Spanish Embassy and they asked for copies of our residency cards. They informed that as Britain has left the EU and is now classed as a third country and being British Passport holders you still have to apply for a NLV to move countries. We had to apply through the Paris embassy.
AS for your S1 you have to get in touch with the DWP when you have a date to move & an address, they will then cancel your existing one for Spain and issue you with a new S1 for that country.
What criteria were requested to get the NLV from France? Did you still have to prove 4xIPREM (around 32.000 for a couple) or simply the IPREM which an EU citizen would require?
It's just that a friend of mine (Brit) has recently moved residency from Germany to the Netherlands and had to complete a retirement residency request (same as a NLV) but didn't have to prove anywhere near the financial means someone moving from UK would have to do.
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Re: Help with moving after Brexit
by p.edwards6 » Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:36 pm
Yes as we hold british passports & the uk is classed as a 3rd country, we had to apply from the country we were living in ergo France through the paris office of the SPANISH Embassy. The criteria was exactly the same 33,000e for the 2 of us, also you have to have the pension documents from DWP showing your monthy pension translated from english to spanish by a spanish government approved translator. Also a criminal police check for the last 5 years. Medical certificate from your GP for each person with specific wording from the Spanish embassy also translated & any other pensions translated that you may have.
Each country have their own criteria & income limits. I understand that portugal requires less money to qualify
Each country have their own criteria & income limits. I understand that portugal requires less money to qualify
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Re: Help with moving after Brexit
by marcliff » Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:10 pm
p.edwards6 wrote:Yes as we hold british passports & the uk is classed as a 3rd country, we had to apply from the country we were living in ergo France through the paris office of the SPANISH Embassy. The criteria was exactly the same 33,000e for the 2 of us, also you have to have the pension documents from DWP showing your monthy pension translated from english to spanish by a spanish government approved translator. Also a criminal police check for the last 5 years. Medical certificate from your GP for each person with specific wording from the Spanish embassy also translated & any other pensions translated that you may have.
Each country have their own criteria & income limits. I understand that portugal requires less money to qualify
Well that puts the EU Rules on the back burner. They state you just need the same criteria as someone from that country but that doesn't seem to gel.
We were actually thinking of moving to Italy and hoping the "treated the same as any other EU citizen" would mean it would be different but your experience doesn't seem to show that.
I was going to apply for Spanish nationality (I passed the initial interview in Spanish and took the written test and passed both) but baulked at having to give up my UK passport and swear allegiance to the King of Spain.
My income would suffice for a visa to Italy but getting a bit long in the tooth (us great grandparents need to tone it down a bit )to start getting translations, GP certs, Police cert (I assume from both countries) so looks like we'll be staying where we are.
"The same rights as a EU citizen" doesn't seem to have been passed down the line.
It also makes the EU mantra of "retaining the rights of a EU citizen" a bit of a farce.
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Re: Help with moving after Brexit
by jorel » Thu Sep 15, 2022 6:50 am
I have a temp residence that is valid for 5 years. It is correct that I can then apply for permanent residence. I can apply in June 2014 for a permanent residency.
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Re: Help with moving after Brexit
by marcliff » Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:40 am
At the end of 5 years your temporary TIE will expire and you change it for one that is permanent and lasts 10 years. (Note, your residency doesn't actually expire, simply the card).
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Re: Help with moving after Brexit
by Paulr » Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:30 pm
A UK citizen's permanent residency and right to Freedom of Movement in one EU country does not automatically give them the same rights in another EU country:
"Permanent residence protects their rights to continue to work and reside in that EU country. It does not protect their right to vote or stand for election, nor are they entitled to move or do business in another EU country in the way they could before the end of transition."
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/uk-cit ... d-to-know/
"Permanent residence protects their rights to continue to work and reside in that EU country. It does not protect their right to vote or stand for election, nor are they entitled to move or do business in another EU country in the way they could before the end of transition."
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/uk-cit ... d-to-know/
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Re: Help with moving after Brexit
by Darro » Thu Oct 20, 2022 8:48 pm
Which is why I challenged marcliff back on Sept 14th.
BTW taking up Spanish citizenship (you can only be a national by being born in Spain or to a Spanish parent) does not mean surrendering a UK passport.
BTW taking up Spanish citizenship (you can only be a national by being born in Spain or to a Spanish parent) does not mean surrendering a UK passport.
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