Community Swimming Pools

[sunworshipper]

I know this topic has been covered before but I would like some up to date information please
I have been told by someone in Algorfa that the Town Hall have said the community pools can open now
Is this correct as I thought the rules were in BOE so not up to individual councils to make their own rules?
Will the restrictions be lifted on 15th June so that pools can be opened without all the costly rules?
Marcliff please could you let us know (in English please ) what exactly the BOE rules are for community pools. and will they be lifted?
We have had ours closed ( due to not being able to afford the costs to abide by the Coronavirus rulings) but the residents are now complaining( no change there though
)

[Bee]

There is a lot of controversy about Community Pools and the Minister for Health's interpretation of their legal standing. According to a recent court case in Aragon, community pools are private and the Minister for Health errs in law when he says they are the same as public or recreation pools for public use. Community pools are not required to have lifeguards. What is suggested is that the pool itself and the surrounding area be limited to 30% capacity and that the surrounding area be disinfected and the 2mtr distance be observed. Can anyone see children doing that? The water in the pool is disinfected already so that doesn't need any extra additives. I really think communities should use their common sense about these things and let the community owners police themselves. This would work if people were reasonable and not one family hog the pool all day. It is not envisaged that the health regulations put in place governing swimming pools will be changed after the 15th June. However the Valencian Community may introduce changes.

https://www.heraldo.es/noticias/aragon/ ... 78401.html

Bee

[marcliff]

The laws talk about swimming pools open to the public so it could be argued, as some have, that the regulations don't apply to community pools. However, as we have a lot of rental properties our administrators, on legal advice, have said they are classed as open to the public. Therefore we have opened our pools with a booking system and a maximum capacity of 30% plus the steps and surrounds are hosed down with a bleach/water mix (as laid down in the Royal Decree) 3 times a day. We have no public toilets, changing rooms or internal showers to worry about.

Saying community pools don't need lifeguards is wrong. It depends on the size of the pool and any pool with more than 200 sq m surface area is required to provide a lifeguard and over 500 sq m is required to have 2 lifeguards.
The rules do not apply to urbanisations with less than 20 properties.

Lifeguards
All swimming facilities for collective use with a total water surface area of 200 meters squared or more should have a qualified lifeguard. For swimming facilities of between 200 and 500 meters squared there should be one lifeguard. A minimum of two lifeguards are required for pool with a total water surface area of between 500 and 1000 meters squared, or one additional life guard per pool or per fraction of 500 meters squared.

And the above is the national law, not something made up.

And from CAB Spain
Besides having to meet the national, regional, local and internal regulations requisites re maintenance, safety etc. it´s worth mentioning that all pools over 200 m2 need to have a lifeguard present during opening hours.

There are loads of regulation, national, regional and provincial, which lay all this down. Not many communities around here will have a pool that is 20m x 10m but, if you do, you need lifeguards. We exceed the area and have 2 lifeguards in the summer months but close off a large area of the pools out of season so they are not necessary as the surface area is less than 200 m then.

As from next week, the regional government will lay down the restrictions and most say all pools can be opened but the hygiene (that is. disinfecting) and social distancing must be maintained. I cannot see anything in the new BOEs that cancel the booking system required. Indeed, one paper says that, in line with the restrictions in Phase 2, pools cannot exceed 30% capacity and must be accessed by appointments only.

Yes, you can skirt around the rules on your community and say they are "private" but these rules also apply to rental property pools. If someone were to drown and no lifeguard was present, the community can be fined up to 600,000 euro and the pools closed for a period of up to 5 years. (That's not to do with the state of alarm but for all times).

[andywyatt]

Our pool opens Monday 15th with lifeguard you have to phone and make an appointment to use the pool so no huggers, and yes over a certain size you need a lifeguard.

[sunworshipper]

Our pool is not big enough to have to have a lifeguard and our community cannot go to the expense of paying someone to organize an appointment system .
I doubt very much of it would teach the maximum allowed in the pool anyway. Therein lies our dilemma!

[Bee]

Apologies I should have said most communities don't need a lifeguard as they are not big enough. Yes I recall those laws re lifeguards being introduced a few years ago. What we all had to do was erect perimeter fences of a certain height and have a secure entry system so that children couldn't wander into the pool. Marcliff I find that legal opinion very odd. It is saying because some owners let their properties the status of the community of owners has changed in law from a private community to a public community i.e anybody can walk in off the street and use your facilities. That cannot possibly be correct.

Bee

[marcliff]

It doesn't say that at all. It says that, as properties are rented out to non owners, they cannot be classed as private.
And there are many, many rules and laws about the use of community pools going all the way back to 1960. (National regulation on the use of pools 31 May 1960 and amended by BOE 12 July 1961 on the use of private pools.

One national law says "a private pool is classed as one used by individuals or in communities with up to 20 properties.
A Madrid ordnance of 1990 changes this to communities of up to 30 properties.
A Generalitat Valenciana ordnance 21 May 2013 also changes this to communities of up to 30 properties.

The only thing is common is that they say "regardless of ownership, communal or public use"
By "public" they are referring to pools used by non-owners and, in any case, on any community that has more than 30 properties which cannot be classed as "private".

There are literally hundreds of rules at national, regional, provincial and even municipality levels. Some newer ones may have changed the definitions a bit but all the ones I've gone through specifically give a limit of properties on a community that can make them classed as "private".

[El Tel]

The laws talk about swimming pools open to the public so it could be argued, as some have, that the regulations don't apply to community pools. However, as we have a lot of rental properties our administrators, on legal advice, have said they are classed as open to the public. Therefore we have opened our pools with a booking system and a maximum capacity of 30% plus the steps and surrounds are hosed down with a bleach/water mix (as laid down in the Royal Decree) 3 times a day. We have no public toilets, changing rooms or internal showers to worry about.

Saying community pools don't need lifeguards is wrong. It depends on the size of the pool and any pool with more than 200 sq m surface area is required to provide a lifeguard and over 500 sq m is required to have 2 lifeguards.
The rules do not apply to urbanisations with less than 20 properties.

Lifeguards
All swimming facilities for collective use with a total water surface area of 200 meters squared or more should have a qualified lifeguard. For swimming facilities of between 200 and 500 meters squared there should be one lifeguard. A minimum of two lifeguards are required for pool with a total water surface area of between 500 and 1000 meters squared, or one additional life guard per pool or per fraction of 500 meters squared.

And the above is the national law, not something made up.

And from CAB Spain
Besides having to meet the national, regional, local and internal regulations requisites re maintenance, safety etc. it´s worth mentioning that all pools over 200 m2 need to have a lifeguard present during opening hours.

There are loads of regulation, national, regional and provincial, which lay all this down. Not many communities around here will have a pool that is 20m x 10m but, if you do, you need lifeguards. We exceed the area and have 2 lifeguards in the summer months but close off a large area of the pools out of season so they are not necessary as the surface area is less than 200 m then.

As from next week, the regional government will lay down the restrictions and most say all pools can be opened but the hygiene (that is. disinfecting) and social distancing must be maintained. I cannot see anything in the new BOEs that cancel the booking system required. Indeed, one paper says that, in line with the restrictions in Phase 2, pools cannot exceed 30% capacity and must be accessed by appointments only.

Yes, you can skirt around the rules on your community and say they are "private" but these rules also apply to rental property pools. If someone were to drown and no lifeguard was present, the community can be fined up to 600,000 euro and the pools closed for a period of up to 5 years. (That's not to do with the state of alarm but for all times).

You don’t mention checking the chemical strength hourly? That’s the kicker.

[william]

If you have a automated system.you don't need to check your water quality it's done automatically, all communities should now by law have this system installed.

[TonTri]

Our pool is not big enough to have to have a lifeguard and our community cannot go to the expense of paying someone to organize an appointment system .
I doubt very much of it would teach the maximum allowed in the pool anyway. Therein lies our dilemma!

We're in the same situation. Although there are 56 properties in our community, there are only a dozen or so occupied at the moment and only 1/2 of them would use the pool anyway. We even suggested having a rota to the administrators but they advised against opening.