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Glass curtains do they need a licence as removable
Re: Glass curtains do they need a licence as removable
by polop » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:06 pm
These days best to ask the town hall regarding licence and in my experience as previous post you may need minor licence and yes you do need permission from your community, never believe every thing workmen/companies tell you ,,check yourself.
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Re: Glass curtains do they need a licence as removable
by Bill » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:20 pm
I have an article that stated that glass curtains increase your meterage so could increase your community fees
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Re: Glass curtains do they need a licence as removable
by Jan » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:30 pm
Bill wrote:I have an article that stated that glass curtains increase your meterage so could increase your community fees
I think you may mean Suma (council tax) as community fees are the same for each property on a community.
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Re: Glass curtains do they need a licence as removable
by Beesknees » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:49 pm
This may help in the original question of this thread the article below is taken from a lawyers website in relation to th Horizontal property law (HPL)
Section 7 Restrictions on alterations to units and dispute resolution
(1) The owners of each flat or premises may modify the architectural elements, installations or services of their flat or premises, giving prior notice to the commonhold representative provided such work does not diminish or alter the safety of the building, its general structure, its external image or configuration, or prejudice the rights of another proprietor.
The owner and the occupant of the flat or premises shall not make any alteration in the rest of the estate . If the owners notice the need for urgent repairs, they shall inform the administrator without delay.
(2) The owner and the occupant of the flat or premises shall not carry out in such flat or premises, or in the rest of the building, any activities which are not permitted by the Articles , or which may cause damage to the estate or contravene the general regulations concerning nuisance, unhealthy, noxious, hazardous or unlawful activities.
The president of the commonhold association, on his own initiative or at the request of any owner or occupant shall request the immediate ceasing of any of the activities banned by this section under warning of appropriate court action.
If the offender persists in his/her conduct, the president, subject to the authority of the Owner’s Committee, duly convened for this purpose, may undertake a court injunction procedure, which, insofar as not expressly provided for in this section, shall be handled by ordinary procedure.
Once the action is brought, along with the accreditation of formal notification to the offender and the certification of the resolution adopted by the Owners’ Committee, the court may order as a precautionary measure the immediate cessation of the prohibited activity, under admonition of incurring an offence of contempt.
Furthermore, the judge may adopt any provisional measures necessary to ensure the cessation order. The action must be brought against the proprietor and, if fitting, against the occupant.
If the judgement were for the claimant, it may decree, besides definitive cessation of the prohibited activity and the awarding of damages as may correspond, the forfeiting of the defendant’s right to use the flat or premises for no more than three years, depending on the seriousness of the infringement and mischief caused to the commonhold. If the infringer were not the owner, the judgement may definitely terminate the offender’s rights to the flat or premises and order his immediate eviction.
7.1 Restrictions on alterations to units and common parts
7.1.1 Scope of the prohibition
In commonhold land, the usual content of the ownership right is limited in the extent that the exercise of that right may not affect the others commonholders nor prejudice the common parts. SC 23-07-2004 and 23-02-2005
7.1.2 On private parts
To what extent the owner could use his or her ownership right to modify private parts is tricky question, as a general rule, it is admitted that the private area inside his property is actually where a commonholder is free to modify, without prejudice of the limits established in the first subsection of this section.
Regarding the notice which must be given to the commonhold’s representative, the OC may not stop the works on the sole ground of lack of it. This notice should be distinguished from permission. There is no specific sanction or consequence in the Act for breach of this duty. The aim of that notice is only to inform the rest of the owners about the prospective nuisance they may suffer as a consequence of the building works.
In this section ‘general structure’ means bearings walls and floor structure. ‘external image or condition’ refers to everything regarding facades or even canopies. Although windows, balconies and terraces are not strictly common parts, it is not allowed to modify them if, as a result of that modification the façades are altered in their configurations.
Thus, in principle no visible changes to the building’s exteriors are permitted. However, image is a matter of aesthetic judgement which varies with individuals and is not measurable. Decisions which affect any common part are entrusted to the OC. They cannot be left to, or dictated by, the decision of an individual commonholder with respect to his own unit. The result would be chaos. It is for the OC to decide whether there will be uniformity in the external appearance of the building, either total or in particular respects
Limits established in this section will not operate where a commonholder obtains unanimous consent from the OC. Obviously, the rest of commonholders will not authorised works which are detrimental to the commonhold.
As it was held by the CA ruling in Madrid 04-01-2006 it is irrelevant whether those works are of benefit or not to the commonhold, or who assumes the cost. It may occur that affected unit-holders consent for whatever reason, despite the possible prejudice caused. In that case the Committee is not entitled to prohibit those works unless they ‘diminish or alter the safety of the estate, its general structure, its external image or condition.’
7.1.2.1 Special reference to glazing private terraces or balconies
The general rule is considering this as an alteration of external image which is prohibited. Where an owner wants to glaze his balcony or terrace he must be authorised by the Owners’ Committee through a unanimous resolution. SC 05-03-1983, CA Madrid 18-09-2006, CA Alicante 20-07-2005 CA Lugo 09-11-2000 CA Madrid 18-11-2008
In the case of lacking the prescribed consent, the Owners’ Committee shall call for a meeting to allow a time limit for the restoration of the unit to the previous state. Where the owner refuses, the commonhold could sue him applying for a court order for the compulsory destruction of the works. If the commonholder is still reluctant to comply with the order, the commonhold may carry out the works and the owner must pay the expenses. The argument that the Town Hall has granted permission to avoid the required consent will not be accepted, in accordance with s. 17, which obliges to have the unanimous vote of the Committee if the work entails an alteration in the façade.
Civil courts consider it irrelevant whether or not the owner has obtained building permission. CA ruling in Asturias 05-04-2004, CA ruling in Madrid 28-06-2004 and 15-06-2005
There are several circumstances where this may arise:
i. The Articles may provide that is not mandatory to obtain consent of the OC in order to glaze terraces or balconies. Only a notice to the OC would be necessary.
ii. Articles exonerate commonholders obtaining permission, the OC is not entitled to stop those works.
iii. The owner is authorised by the Owners’ Committee
iv. The owner is entitled because he has the implied consent of the OC, which means that the Committee may not act against the owner after several years. SC 31-01-2007 05-10-2007 05-11-2008.
CA Madrid 11-02-2008 considered 12 years, CA Tenerife 29-09-2001 submitted a term of 10 years, CA Barcelona 19-10-2007 8 years and CA Madrid 16-10-2006 8 years
The rule of tacit consent is widely applied by the Supreme Court, it means a form of consent which is not expressly granted , but rather inferred from actions and the facts and circumstances of a particular situation (or in some cases, by silence or inaction).
This problem often stems from inadvertence: a lack of familiarity with the rules leading to consent having been given erroneously in the past; a failure to enforce past transgressions or a president having given approval on a matter falling outside his sphere of responsibility. Much litigation is caused not necessarily because of any malignant intention to thwart the will of the OC, but rather because of a sense of unfairness that a privilege that has been allowed to other owner in the past is being unfairly withheld from the litigant commonholder.
The term is most commonly encountered in the alteration of common and private parts. Tacit consent also means that if other owners in the same commonhold have glazed their terraces or balconies previously with tacit or express consent, the OC may not then prevent new owners to carry out such works .
Problems arise when the previous glazing and the planned one do not possess the same features; in that case the tacit consent’s rule breaks up.CA ruling in Madrid 29-06-2004, 27-06-2003 and 27-12-2004
Section 7 Restrictions on alterations to units and dispute resolution
(1) The owners of each flat or premises may modify the architectural elements, installations or services of their flat or premises, giving prior notice to the commonhold representative provided such work does not diminish or alter the safety of the building, its general structure, its external image or configuration, or prejudice the rights of another proprietor.
The owner and the occupant of the flat or premises shall not make any alteration in the rest of the estate . If the owners notice the need for urgent repairs, they shall inform the administrator without delay.
(2) The owner and the occupant of the flat or premises shall not carry out in such flat or premises, or in the rest of the building, any activities which are not permitted by the Articles , or which may cause damage to the estate or contravene the general regulations concerning nuisance, unhealthy, noxious, hazardous or unlawful activities.
The president of the commonhold association, on his own initiative or at the request of any owner or occupant shall request the immediate ceasing of any of the activities banned by this section under warning of appropriate court action.
If the offender persists in his/her conduct, the president, subject to the authority of the Owner’s Committee, duly convened for this purpose, may undertake a court injunction procedure, which, insofar as not expressly provided for in this section, shall be handled by ordinary procedure.
Once the action is brought, along with the accreditation of formal notification to the offender and the certification of the resolution adopted by the Owners’ Committee, the court may order as a precautionary measure the immediate cessation of the prohibited activity, under admonition of incurring an offence of contempt.
Furthermore, the judge may adopt any provisional measures necessary to ensure the cessation order. The action must be brought against the proprietor and, if fitting, against the occupant.
If the judgement were for the claimant, it may decree, besides definitive cessation of the prohibited activity and the awarding of damages as may correspond, the forfeiting of the defendant’s right to use the flat or premises for no more than three years, depending on the seriousness of the infringement and mischief caused to the commonhold. If the infringer were not the owner, the judgement may definitely terminate the offender’s rights to the flat or premises and order his immediate eviction.
7.1 Restrictions on alterations to units and common parts
7.1.1 Scope of the prohibition
In commonhold land, the usual content of the ownership right is limited in the extent that the exercise of that right may not affect the others commonholders nor prejudice the common parts. SC 23-07-2004 and 23-02-2005
7.1.2 On private parts
To what extent the owner could use his or her ownership right to modify private parts is tricky question, as a general rule, it is admitted that the private area inside his property is actually where a commonholder is free to modify, without prejudice of the limits established in the first subsection of this section.
Regarding the notice which must be given to the commonhold’s representative, the OC may not stop the works on the sole ground of lack of it. This notice should be distinguished from permission. There is no specific sanction or consequence in the Act for breach of this duty. The aim of that notice is only to inform the rest of the owners about the prospective nuisance they may suffer as a consequence of the building works.
In this section ‘general structure’ means bearings walls and floor structure. ‘external image or condition’ refers to everything regarding facades or even canopies. Although windows, balconies and terraces are not strictly common parts, it is not allowed to modify them if, as a result of that modification the façades are altered in their configurations.
Thus, in principle no visible changes to the building’s exteriors are permitted. However, image is a matter of aesthetic judgement which varies with individuals and is not measurable. Decisions which affect any common part are entrusted to the OC. They cannot be left to, or dictated by, the decision of an individual commonholder with respect to his own unit. The result would be chaos. It is for the OC to decide whether there will be uniformity in the external appearance of the building, either total or in particular respects
Limits established in this section will not operate where a commonholder obtains unanimous consent from the OC. Obviously, the rest of commonholders will not authorised works which are detrimental to the commonhold.
As it was held by the CA ruling in Madrid 04-01-2006 it is irrelevant whether those works are of benefit or not to the commonhold, or who assumes the cost. It may occur that affected unit-holders consent for whatever reason, despite the possible prejudice caused. In that case the Committee is not entitled to prohibit those works unless they ‘diminish or alter the safety of the estate, its general structure, its external image or condition.’
7.1.2.1 Special reference to glazing private terraces or balconies
The general rule is considering this as an alteration of external image which is prohibited. Where an owner wants to glaze his balcony or terrace he must be authorised by the Owners’ Committee through a unanimous resolution. SC 05-03-1983, CA Madrid 18-09-2006, CA Alicante 20-07-2005 CA Lugo 09-11-2000 CA Madrid 18-11-2008
In the case of lacking the prescribed consent, the Owners’ Committee shall call for a meeting to allow a time limit for the restoration of the unit to the previous state. Where the owner refuses, the commonhold could sue him applying for a court order for the compulsory destruction of the works. If the commonholder is still reluctant to comply with the order, the commonhold may carry out the works and the owner must pay the expenses. The argument that the Town Hall has granted permission to avoid the required consent will not be accepted, in accordance with s. 17, which obliges to have the unanimous vote of the Committee if the work entails an alteration in the façade.
Civil courts consider it irrelevant whether or not the owner has obtained building permission. CA ruling in Asturias 05-04-2004, CA ruling in Madrid 28-06-2004 and 15-06-2005
There are several circumstances where this may arise:
i. The Articles may provide that is not mandatory to obtain consent of the OC in order to glaze terraces or balconies. Only a notice to the OC would be necessary.
ii. Articles exonerate commonholders obtaining permission, the OC is not entitled to stop those works.
iii. The owner is authorised by the Owners’ Committee
iv. The owner is entitled because he has the implied consent of the OC, which means that the Committee may not act against the owner after several years. SC 31-01-2007 05-10-2007 05-11-2008.
CA Madrid 11-02-2008 considered 12 years, CA Tenerife 29-09-2001 submitted a term of 10 years, CA Barcelona 19-10-2007 8 years and CA Madrid 16-10-2006 8 years
The rule of tacit consent is widely applied by the Supreme Court, it means a form of consent which is not expressly granted , but rather inferred from actions and the facts and circumstances of a particular situation (or in some cases, by silence or inaction).
This problem often stems from inadvertence: a lack of familiarity with the rules leading to consent having been given erroneously in the past; a failure to enforce past transgressions or a president having given approval on a matter falling outside his sphere of responsibility. Much litigation is caused not necessarily because of any malignant intention to thwart the will of the OC, but rather because of a sense of unfairness that a privilege that has been allowed to other owner in the past is being unfairly withheld from the litigant commonholder.
The term is most commonly encountered in the alteration of common and private parts. Tacit consent also means that if other owners in the same commonhold have glazed their terraces or balconies previously with tacit or express consent, the OC may not then prevent new owners to carry out such works .
Problems arise when the previous glazing and the planned one do not possess the same features; in that case the tacit consent’s rule breaks up.CA ruling in Madrid 29-06-2004, 27-06-2003 and 27-12-2004
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Re: Glass curtains do they need a licence as removable
by elchedave » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:34 am
Community fees are NOT the same for each property on a community. The Notary sets the fees when the community is to be formed & the fees are set on the size of plot each property is built on. In our case, all corner properties were built on bigger plots & therefore their community fees were proportionally higher.
One of the owners asked if we could all pay the same amount & was told categorically NO, unless all other owners agreed & then an expensive visit to the notary to have all paperwork amended would be required.
Regards,
Dave
One of the owners asked if we could all pay the same amount & was told categorically NO, unless all other owners agreed & then an expensive visit to the notary to have all paperwork amended would be required.
Regards,
Dave
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Re: Glass curtains do they need a licence as removable
by Jan » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:45 am
elchedave wrote:Community fees are NOT the same for each property on a community. The Notary sets the fees when the community is to be formed & the fees are set on the size of plot each property is built on. In our case, all corner properties were built on bigger plots & therefore their community fees were proportionally higher.
One of the owners asked if we could all pay the same amount & was told categorically NO, unless all other owners agreed & then an expensive visit to the notary to have all paperwork amended would be required.
Regards,
Dave
Sorry I didn't realise that some people on the same community pay different amounts for their community fees - On 'Lo Marabu' ewhere the OP is asking about, which is a very large community/urbanisation, everyone pays the same amount €152 per year,no matter how big or small their land is (and many of the gardens vary in size).
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Re: Glass curtains do they need a licence as removable
by emwood » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:20 am
In Spain you need a liscence to go to the loo
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Re: Glass curtains do they need a licence as removable
by jpeg » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:38 am
Jan wrote:Bill wrote:I have an article that stated that glass curtains increase your meterage so could increase your community fees
I think you may mean Suma (council tax) as community fees are the same for each property on a community.
Jan
Community fees are normally based on Quotas according to the size of your plot so you pay more for a larger property/plot
Last edited by jpeg on Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Glass curtains do they need a licence as removable
by elchedave » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:02 am
It looks like another case of how the law is interpreted by the Notary/Administrator/Community.
We were advised the quotas were plot based, jpeg says property based & yet Jan's community all pay the same!!!!!!!!!
One of the many novelties of Spanish life i guess lol!!!!
We were advised the quotas were plot based, jpeg says property based & yet Jan's community all pay the same!!!!!!!!!
One of the many novelties of Spanish life i guess lol!!!!
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