unvaccinated residents

there's a way around the unvaxxed gaining vax passports just like anything else in life, there's always a way

Lostblackcatman wrote:I am not antivax. If people feel it is of benefit please take it. I have made a personal risk assessment and on balance decided that the 99.7% survival rate against unknown future risks of a brand new gene therapy dodnt stack up for me.
What I dont like, and the reason I posted on this thread, is the growing number of people saying that unvaxed need to be almost punished

People who say things like that are the ones that Boris, Whitty, Biden and even the Pope have called dangerous for spreading misinformation. The survival rate is not 99.7%, that's just a made up figure people come out with to justify their views and, even it were, would still be a lot of people dying which could maybe have been avoided. Pushing out figures like that is just a way of showing how selfish people are.

It is not gene therapy, either. It does not alter your DNA.

I think everyone has the right not to have the vaccine, just as the vast majority of us have the right to shun them as they are a risk to themselves and to others.

UK recovery rate not leading to death 98.65%
Recovery rate with no ongoing problems 75.6% (yes, still a lot suffering)

Spain recovery rate not leading to death 98.28%
Recovery rate with no ongoing problems 67%

I see more and more companies now changing rules, so that they don't pay sick pay to the unvaccinated, for any Covid related illness. These include IKEA, next, Morrisons to name a few.
Several countries making vaccine compulsory with monthly and annual fines for those not vaccinated.
Some places now putting a levy on unvacvinated using hospitals.
Cruises and some airlines are now vaccinated only.
Entry to some countries for vaccinated only.

I say good to them all. Its a choice but it has consequences. All countries should impose these measures, unless genuinely medical exempt.

For a tennis fan like me, being unvaccinated is not on. I'd never get the option to go & watch any matches live.

HarvHar2018 wrote:there's a way around the unvaxxed gaining vax passports just like anything else in life, there's always a way

There probably is. In the UK, I've seen people sending their QR codes to others while stood in a queue.

Wherever I've been in Spain, though, I've been asked to show my passport which they match with the details on the QR code. Spanish residents with me have been asked for their TIE.

Lostblackcatman wrote:I am not antivax. If people feel it is of benefit please take it. I have made a personal risk assessment and on balance decided that the 99.7% survival rate against unknown future risks of a brand new gene therapy dodnt stack up for me.
What I dont like, and the reason I posted on this thread, is the growing number of people saying that unvaxed need to be almost punished

I will add that the 99.7% survival figure was for "younger" people without treatment who where in good health with no co-morbidities. Where as the figure dropped to 95% depending on what age group you fall into.

I'm not anti vax either but i will not be pressured or coerced into taking something that has only been out for a year and therfore has no long term safety studies. Not that the efficacy is all that anyway.

Don't you want to fly, take a holiday, attend an event, watch live sport etc etc ?

Won't you find life very limiting....a bit like a self imposed lockdown ?

They'll just get fake passports

Sage wrote:Don't you want to fly, take a holiday, attend an event, watch live sport etc etc ?

Won't you find life very limiting....a bit like a self imposed lockdown ?

Sage wrote:Don't you want to fly, take a holiday, attend an event, watch live sport etc etc ?

Won't you find life very limiting....a bit like a self imposed lockdown ?

Yes i would. I would love to travel again, go out and support my local bars, who have already taken a battering. But i will not be coerced (which is illegal) into taking something that isn't all that and has shown for many to be dangerous. Then there's the discriminatory / fascist side to it all with needing passes etc to do anything, the same which has sparked revolutions in Kazakhstan and Bulgaria recently.

All this is simply trivialising the virus and, by extension, trivialising death as well which is a shame.
Spain reports that the excess deaths in the last 18 months has reached 20% in each of the waves. Not something to be dismissed with "well, it's only a cold".

False information on social media sites, fake news sites and so on are, to a large extent, trivialising it now because the latest variant appears less dangerous. However, with the great increase in positive tests has come a greater increase in hospitalisations and ICU admittances in Spain. An internet group calling for digital honesty (ie, internet story truth) have found that up to 70% of the fake news coming out originate in just 12 internet sites. They have dubbed these "the disinformation dozen" and they mainly come for E European countries although one of them is UK based. The stories they print then get picked up on FB, Instagram, YouTube and so giving the saying "A lie can travel the world and back whilst the truth is still lacing up its boots" more pertinency in this electronic age.

Yes, a large majority (some 61%) of hospitalisations are the double jabbed. With over 90% jabbed in this region, that means around 480,000 people in the Valencia region are unjabbed but accounting for 39% of hospitalisation which, proportionally, is a huge number. Even worse as those who have to go to ICU account for 90% of those hospitalised.

So, those who say the vaccine is not working take a note that it will not stop you getting the new variant but it is definitely proved that it stops serious problems. It also stops long term (or long covid) problems which accounts for a large amount of those who have serious problems with the virus. Just look at the number of positives compared to those who have fully recovered. Not so trivial now.

Yes, a lot of those deaths will be among those with comorbidities. But, again, that's trivialising it. Main causes of death for those with covid are diabetes and heart problems. People who could have expected to live longer lives with insulin or tablets, GTN spray or simply lo dose aspirin. It gets ignored that the virus has increased the rate of death among those who could have expected to simply change their way of living but now have no chance to do so. It's as if people just want to write off those who have illnesses whereas, before the virus, everything was being done to treat them and increase their lifespan but the attitude now seems to be tough, it's their problem they got heart disease or something and almost deserve to die.

I still do not think the vaccine should be compulsory as that would be taking it a step too far, especially with the magnificent vaccine rollout in Spain. But please excuse us, especially us oldies, for taking every precaution to avoid coming into contact with the unvaccinated. If that means covid passports then so be it. If that means keeping social distancing then so be it. Not sure about facemasks outside but inside, so be it. Just don't belittle us for taking those precautions.