Join Talk Quesada
Welcome to Talk Quesada! My name's Alex and this is my website all about Ciudad Quesada in Spain. Talk Quesada is free to sign up and use so register below!
Padron & SIP
Re: Padron & SIP
by TonTri » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:54 pm
Tom1957 wrote:Am I right in thinking then that by presenting my EHIC card and Padron I can obtain a SIP card which allows access to all medical services, not just emergency cover? When I visited the Dona Pepa medical centre recently I was told that the EHIC only covers emergency treatment. Had I been in possession of a temporary SIP presumably there would have been no issue.
No it covers exactly the same as the EHIC card, it just saves you filling in the forms each time you go to the doctors.
-
TonTri - Posts: 2631
- Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:31 pm
- Which part of Spain are you from?: Quesada
- Gender: Female
Re: Padron & SIP
by PeteKnight » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:10 pm
TonTri - you say that you’re here for the next 5 months. I guess that means that Spain isn’t your primary place of residence?
Ian2009 - you’ve made it clear that you’re non-residents.
In both cases, signing on the Padron is illegal.
I realise that the local council is encouraging people to do this, as it puts more funds in their coffers, but that doesn’t make it legal. Their actions will most likely eventually result in the money being recovered from the local authority and a large fine being imposed on them as well. This has happened in other areas and effectively bankrupts the local authority.
You should read this thread on the sister forum for more info:
https://www.costablancaforum.com/area/almorad%C3%AD-spain-11/residency-in-almorad%C3%AD-padron-residencia-passport-advice-23/jims-guide-illegally-registering-on-the-padrn-45644/
Pete.
Ian2009 - you’ve made it clear that you’re non-residents.
In both cases, signing on the Padron is illegal.
I realise that the local council is encouraging people to do this, as it puts more funds in their coffers, but that doesn’t make it legal. Their actions will most likely eventually result in the money being recovered from the local authority and a large fine being imposed on them as well. This has happened in other areas and effectively bankrupts the local authority.
You should read this thread on the sister forum for more info:
https://www.costablancaforum.com/area/almorad%C3%AD-spain-11/residency-in-almorad%C3%AD-padron-residencia-passport-advice-23/jims-guide-illegally-registering-on-the-padrn-45644/
Pete.
- PeteKnight
- Posts: 1468
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:17 pm
- Which part of Spain are you from?: Villamartin
- Gender: Male
Re: Padron & SIP
by TonTri » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:21 pm
Pete, I have read several threads with the arguments for and against signing on the padron.
We are here for 5 months over the winter and again for 2 to 3 weeks in May/June. We also rent our apartment out in the summer months. Therefore we use the services of Rojales council for a large part of the year so in my mind it is only right that they get reimbursed from central government.
We are here for 5 months over the winter and again for 2 to 3 weeks in May/June. We also rent our apartment out in the summer months. Therefore we use the services of Rojales council for a large part of the year so in my mind it is only right that they get reimbursed from central government.
-
TonTri - Posts: 2631
- Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:31 pm
- Which part of Spain are you from?: Quesada
- Gender: Female
Re: Padron & SIP
by marcliff » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:45 pm
The padron is also the equivalent of the electoral roll in UK. By signing on it, you will be entitled to vote in local elections. That is against the law as you can only be registered in one place for this.
The actual Ley Organico 2000 which deals with the right of foreigners and the padron is quite specific. In article 53 d it categorically states:
Consentir la inscripción de un extranjero en el Padrón Municipal por parte del titular de
una vivienda habilitado para tal fin, cuando dicha vivienda no constituya el domicilio real del
extranjero. Se incurrirá en una infracción por cada persona indebidamente inscrita.
Which is:
Allowing the registration of a foreigner in the Municipal Register to the owner of
a dwelling authorized for that purpose, when said dwelling does not constitute the actual domicile of the said
Foreigner is an infraction of this law and an infraction will be incurred for each person wrongly registered.
So PeterKnight is correct, you should not register on the padron if this is not your main home.
However, I can see the reason that places like Rojales/Quesada does this. As over 60% of all homes in the Quesada area are not owned by those who actually live here then it would be very difficult to provide many services without having the financial support of the local government. I understand Rojales (and several other areas) are in dispute with this law saying that they provide services to the local community whether or not they are domiciled here and that the amount they pay in non resident income taxes should be returned to the municipality in which they live.
Be interesting to see the outcome.
The actual Ley Organico 2000 which deals with the right of foreigners and the padron is quite specific. In article 53 d it categorically states:
Consentir la inscripción de un extranjero en el Padrón Municipal por parte del titular de
una vivienda habilitado para tal fin, cuando dicha vivienda no constituya el domicilio real del
extranjero. Se incurrirá en una infracción por cada persona indebidamente inscrita.
Which is:
Allowing the registration of a foreigner in the Municipal Register to the owner of
a dwelling authorized for that purpose, when said dwelling does not constitute the actual domicile of the said
Foreigner is an infraction of this law and an infraction will be incurred for each person wrongly registered.
So PeterKnight is correct, you should not register on the padron if this is not your main home.
However, I can see the reason that places like Rojales/Quesada does this. As over 60% of all homes in the Quesada area are not owned by those who actually live here then it would be very difficult to provide many services without having the financial support of the local government. I understand Rojales (and several other areas) are in dispute with this law saying that they provide services to the local community whether or not they are domiciled here and that the amount they pay in non resident income taxes should be returned to the municipality in which they live.
Be interesting to see the outcome.
-
marcliff - Posts: 9694
- Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:41 pm
- Location: Doña Pepa 2
- Which part of Spain are you from?: Dona Pepa 2
- Gender: Male
Re: Padron & SIP
by PeteKnight » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:47 pm
TonTri wrote:Pete, I have read several threads with the arguments for and against signing on the padron.
We are here for 5 months over the winter and again for 2 to 3 weeks in May/June. We also rent our apartment out in the summer months. Therefore we use the services of Rojales council for a large part of the year so in my mind it is only right that they get reimbursed from central government.
That’s your choice, but if you’re fined between €501 and €10,000 for each of you then you might feel differently about the situation.
I think that if this happened then there’d be quite a few who would blame Rojales town hall for allowing/encouraging this illegal registration.
Pete.
- PeteKnight
- Posts: 1468
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:17 pm
- Which part of Spain are you from?: Villamartin
- Gender: Male
Re: Padron & SIP
by TonTri » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:00 pm
We would personally be fined for doing what everyone tells us is the right thing to do if we are here any length of time??? Have there been any cases of fining individuals in Alicante province. How else do we get temporary SIP cards or get a permit to go to the rubbish tip? As far as we're concerned, we have 2 homes, Spain in winter and UK in summer, we use the services of each more or less equally. In the UK we pay vast amounts of council tax but in Spain, we should just sponge off the income the council gets for the local residents.
-
TonTri - Posts: 2631
- Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:31 pm
- Which part of Spain are you from?: Quesada
- Gender: Female
Re: Padron & SIP
by PeteKnight » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:22 pm
Yes, you would be personally fined, as what you’re doing is illegal.
I have no idea if people have been fined in the past, but even if nobody has then that’s no guarantee that you won’t be fined in future.
The local authority get around €177 per year per person registered on the Padron., but the absolute minimum fine you would recieve is almost three times that amount.
A temporary SIP card doesn’t give you anything that an EHIC card gives, and you’ll still get one anyway if you go to the Salud with your EHIC and passport.
However, as far as I’m concerned, the law is the law - break it at your own risk. I just want you to be aware that what you’re planning to do is illegal, and for you to understand what the potential penalties are.
The choice is yours.
Pete.
I have no idea if people have been fined in the past, but even if nobody has then that’s no guarantee that you won’t be fined in future.
The local authority get around €177 per year per person registered on the Padron., but the absolute minimum fine you would recieve is almost three times that amount.
A temporary SIP card doesn’t give you anything that an EHIC card gives, and you’ll still get one anyway if you go to the Salud with your EHIC and passport.
However, as far as I’m concerned, the law is the law - break it at your own risk. I just want you to be aware that what you’re planning to do is illegal, and for you to understand what the potential penalties are.
The choice is yours.
Pete.
- PeteKnight
- Posts: 1468
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:17 pm
- Which part of Spain are you from?: Villamartin
- Gender: Male
Re: Padron & SIP
by TonTri » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:44 am
I'm not averse to bending the law a little if the law is an ass, but I'm not prepared to have to fork out €20000 for the privilege. What I don't understand is why the council are encouraging people to sign on if it's illegal and they can get personally fined; I thought just the council would get fined if anyone.
Sigh....it saddens me though as we were just trying t do what we thought was the right thing.
Sigh....it saddens me though as we were just trying t do what we thought was the right thing.
-
TonTri - Posts: 2631
- Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:31 pm
- Which part of Spain are you from?: Quesada
- Gender: Female
Re: Padron & SIP
by Ireneinveraray » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:07 am
I just signed on the padron and got a temporary sip card last week. I am now resident here but my appointment to apply for residency is in 3 weeks time. My sip card expires in 6 months but will only cover me for emergency treatment? Once I get my residency should I go back to the town hall with my residencia for a permanent sip card or should I wait until the temporary one expires?
-
Ireneinveraray - Posts: 635
- Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:11 am
- Which part of Spain are you from?: Quesada
- Gender: Female
Re: Padron & SIP
by Paulr » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:42 pm
Ian2009 wrote:We just got our Padron but we are not in Rojales - we took our passports and a suma (council tax bill) and although they didn’t speak any English it was processed easily there and then We stay for 2 / 3 months a time but are not residents so I didn’t think we could get a temporary SIP or am I wrong? Is it something that just gives you easier access to your local doctor for everyday medical treatment if needed?
"Temporary" SIP cards are something that Rojales issues for convenience - they last 6 months and have to be renewed. They are for use by non residents with their EHIC card, i.e. for urgent medical attention or care that cannot await their return to the UK.
-
Paulr - Posts: 1122
- Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:52 am
- Which part of Spain are you from?: Formentera
- Gender: Male
Related topics
-
- Similar Topics
- Replies
- Views
- Last post
-
-
Padron
1, 2 by Jabberwocky » Tue Jul 11, 2023 11:49 am in Quesada general discussion - 17
- 532
-
by Bee
Wed Jul 12, 2023 7:28 pm
-
Padron
-
-
Padrón renewal
by Pete31 » Fri Sep 15, 2023 10:32 am in Quesada general discussion - 9
- 473
-
by Pete31
Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:33 am
-
Padrón renewal
-
-
Renewing Padron
by SueC » Mon Jul 31, 2023 3:01 pm in Quesada general discussion - 4
- 216
-
by Brewingdog
Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:45 pm
-
Renewing Padron
-
-
renewal of padron Torrevieja
by Andrea Murphy » Sat Apr 29, 2023 11:38 am in Quesada general discussion - 5
- 259
-
by Andrea Murphy
Sun Apr 30, 2023 10:57 am
-
renewal of padron Torrevieja
Return to Residency in Spain: padron, residencia and passport advice
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests
Login
Find in Quesada
Quesada pages
Quesada discussion
- Quesada general discussion
- Banking and finances
- Broadband, Wifi, Phone and TV
- Buses and public transport in and around Quesada
- Driving to Spain / Car hire in Spain / Buying and owning a car in Spain
- Fiestas in Quesada
- Flights, baggage and airports
- Health services in Quesada
- Insurances and wills in Spain
- Items for sale and wanted in and around Quesada
- Interesting articles about Spain
- Jobs and careers in Quesada
- Lost and found in Quesada
- Market days
- Places to go for free Wi-Fi
- Recommended restaurants / cafes / bars
- Recommended Tradesmen and Companies
- Residency in Spain: padron, residencia and passport advice
- Safety / security information and property in Spain hints and tips
- Taxes in Spain: Suma, NIE and general tax advice
- Taxis in Quesada
- Things to do and places to go in and around Quesada
- Utilities in Spain: Electric, gas and water recommendations and advice
- Weather in Quesada
- Where to buy things in and around Quesada
- Where to hire things in and around Quesada
Properties discussion
Businesses and places in Quesada
- Bars and pubs in Quesada
- Beaches near Quesada
- Beauticians / Beauty salons in Quesada
- Bedding and soft furnishings shops in Quesada
- Butchers in Quesada
- Car dealers in Quesada: new and used car dealers
- Car garages, mechanics, tyre fitter centres in Quesada
- Car hire in Quesada
- DIY / Bricolage / Ferreteria stores in Quesada
- Equipment hire centers in Quesada
- Estate agents in Quesada
- Furniture shops in Quesada
- Garden centres and garden furniture shops in Quesada
- Golf Courses in Quesada
- Grills / gates / metal items shops in Quesada
- Hairdressers in Quesada
- Hotels, guest houses and bed and breakfasts in Quesada and nearby
- Internet service providers that cover Quesada
- Launderettes / dry cleaners in Quesada
- Markets in Quesada
- Medical / Health centers in Quesada
- Pet shops in Quesada
- Pharmacies / Chemist shops in Quesada
- Restaurants in Quesada
- Shopping centres in Quesada
- Sports centres and gyms in Quesada
- Supermarkets in Quesada
- Swimming pool services in Quesada
- Town Halls (Ayuntamientos) in Quesada
- Waterparks/Aquaparks in Quesada
- TalkQuesada » Board index
- The team • Delete all board cookies • All times are UTC [ DST ]
- Our other websites:
- Costa Blanca forum
- Costa Calida forum
- Costa del Sol forum
- Costa de Almeria forum
- Costa de la Luz forum
- Costa Dorada forum
- Costa Brava forum
- UK forum
- Jobs in the UK
- Our policies:
- Privacy policy
- User agreement
- Content policy
- Website created and operated by JSM Forum Websites