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REGISTER OF FOREIGN NATIONALS

Re: REGISTER OF FOREIGN NATIONALS

Postby Tootandploot » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:25 pm

What are the benefits (if any) of registering?
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Re: REGISTER OF FOREIGN NATIONALS

Postby Espanabums » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:37 pm

Tootandploot wrote:What are the benefits (if any) of registering?


Not many, apart from being able to register on the padron, a requirement is some areas.

It is however a requirement of living in Spain, you do not have a choice. If you spend more than 90 days in one lump you are obliged to register and to do so you have to provide proof of full health care provision and sufficient income as not to be a burden on the state.
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Re: REGISTER OF FOREIGN NATIONALS

Postby TonTri » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:04 pm

Tootandploot wrote:Thanks Marcliff. Would you happen to know the requirements, particularly health care. Would I be covered by uk healthcare and ehic or is additional cover required.



I am interested in this also, particularly as my husband will start to receive his UK state pension 4 days before we come out to stay in October. Can we just use the EHIC card/temporary SIP or do we need to apply for an S1 certificate?

Sorry TootandPloot to hijack your post :| but it does raise interesting points.
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Re: REGISTER OF FOREIGN NATIONALS

Postby Paulr » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:40 pm

marcliff wrote:Correct. In fact, residencia is the wrong name as only non-EU nationals can apply for residencia. Us Brits (and other EU citizens) go on to the Register of foreign EU citizens resident in Spain. Slightly different but we call it residency as it's much easier to do so.
Note, you can go on to this register and effectively be a resident in Spain but you do not need to become a fiscal resident unless you live here all year round and have your main financial base here. For example, if you work in UK for more than 3 months and all your financial dealings are UK (along with your taxes and NICs) you can become a non-fiscal resident in Spain. It's just a way of formalising your status. Normally you become tax resident in Spain if you spend more than 6 months but the tax people in UK can give you a tax residency status for UK if you can prove your main financial and living ties are with the UK.
You should go on to this register even if you spend more than 3 months in Spain. Free movement with no visa or documentation is only valid for up to 3 months so residency after that should be done.


Thanks Marcliff. My husband and I live in Spain permanently, early retirees, so no income in Spain, but we own a house here and pay for private healthcare. Hubby has a military pension, which has to be taxed and paid in the UK, I have two private pensions and rental income from a property we own in the UK. From what you've said, it sounds as if I should be asking HMRC for us to have UK tax residency, even though, as year-round inhabitants in Spain, we would usually become fiscal residents here? Just double-checking I've correctly interpreted what you've said please? Many thanks.
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Re: REGISTER OF FOREIGN NATIONALS

Postby Paulr » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:52 pm

Espanabums wrote:
Tootandploot wrote:What are the benefits (if any) of registering?


Not many, apart from being able to register on the padron, a requirement is some areas.

It is however a requirement of living in Spain, you do not have a choice. If you spend more than 90 days in one lump you are obliged to register and to do so you have to provide proof of full health care provision and sufficient income as not to be a burden on the state.



You don't need to be registered on the Extranjeros (register of Foreign Nationals) to be able to register on the Padron. Not exactly like for like, but the closest thing we have in the UK to Spain's Padron, is the Census. Applications to join the Padron should be made at the Town Hall of the area you live in. We were told that we had to register, because we would be asked to provide our Padron registration certificate if we wanted to buy anything over Eu 1,000, but in fact no-one has ever asked for it, they only ever want our NIE numbers. It's a shame though, because signing on the Padron enables your local Town Hall to apply for central funding from Madrid based on the number of residents in each locality, so it ultimately benefits us as residents and is probably a 'Good citizen' type of thing to do :)
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Re: REGISTER OF FOREIGN NATIONALS

Postby Tootandploot » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:58 pm

There seems to be little point if there are no benefits to doing it. The fact that you are obliged to is another issue. I can understand why so many people don't, it's seems such a ball ache of a process and for nothing, why bother.?

My understanding of EU Law, limited though it is, says you can't treat other EU Nationals different to your own? That again is another issue, but non residents bear additional tax burdens or so I am given to understand.

It's a minefield and I am already having second thoughts. Might just keep the status quo.
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Re: REGISTER OF FOREIGN NATIONALS

Postby marcliff » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:18 pm

Paulr wrote:
Espanabums wrote:
Tootandploot wrote:What are the benefits (if any) of registering?


Not many, apart from being able to register on the padron, a requirement is some areas.

It is however a requirement of living in Spain, you do not have a choice. If you spend more than 90 days in one lump you are obliged to register and to do so you have to provide proof of full health care provision and sufficient income as not to be a burden on the state.



You don't need to be registered on the Extranjeros (register of Foreign Nationals) to be able to register on the Padron. Not exactly like for like, but the closest thing we have in the UK to Spain's Padron, is the Census. Applications to join the Padron should be made at the Town Hall of the area you live in. We were told that we had to register, because we would be asked to provide our Padron registration certificate if we wanted to buy anything over Eu 1,000, but in fact no-one has ever asked for it, they only ever want our NIE numbers. It's a shame though, because signing on the Padron enables your local Town Hall to apply for central funding from Madrid based on the number of residents in each locality, so it ultimately benefits us as residents and is probably a 'Good citizen' type of thing to do :)



Officially, you can only sign on the padron if you are a permanent resident in Spain. It is our equivalent of the electoral roll as well. Rojales and areas around here allow you to sign on it as they get funding for everyone who is on the padron. However, if you live in Torrevieja or the Orihuela Costa, you cannot sign on the padron unless you are a resident here. Being on the padron allows you to vote in local and European elections.
Being a resident has lots of advantages if you are going to settle here. One, not insignificant bit, is the inheritance tax. If you are a resident in the Comunidad Valenciana, you will receive a larger tax threshold than if you are a non-resident. If you are a pensioner who has lived in your home as a resident for more than 3 years (and it's your main home) you will not be liable for any inheritance tax (or very little). A non-resident in the same situation could be liable for around 20,000 euro tax on a 200,000 euro property, for example. And if you sell your property in the same situation you will not be liable for capital gains tax.
You cannot get a permanent healthcard unless you are resident and will not be able to get prescriptions for free.
You won't be able to work (officially) without residency and padron, you can't send your kids to school either.
Plus, when we leave the EU, you may find the time limits for staying here will change and they may enforce it a bit more.
It's quite an easy process especially if you go to Orihuela Costa town hall in Playa Flamenca. It is valid for life and, as a resident, you will not pay the non-resident charges on your bank account (quite a significant fee) nor the 2 yearly non-resident certificate. I pay no charges on my bank account as a resident and only require a monthly payment of 200 euro for that to happen.
Oh, and did I mention it is the law here that if you stay over 90 days in one year you are actually obliged to be on the register? Still, it's a foreign country innit? and those rules don't apply to us Brits, do they? Just like we put our rubbish in the bins when we want to (whilst meekly obeying the UK rules of putting stuff in different coloured boxes, bags or bins - but that's UK and we have to abide by their rules, johnny foreigner's rules are different).
And tootandploot, the allowances for residents and non-residents is not treated differently. It's just that you get the Spanish allowances for things like inheritance tax etc and not the local Valencia region allowances.
I know people complain about the bank charges but you can't even open a non-resident account it UK unless it's an offshore one. Then see the charges you get.
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Re: REGISTER OF FOREIGN NATIONALS

Postby Niktam » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:38 pm

Thanks Marcliff. My husband and I live in Spain permanently, early retirees, so no income in Spain, but we own a house here and pay for private healthcare. Hubby has a military pension, which has to be taxed and paid in the UK, I have two private pensions and rental income from a property we own in the UK. From what you've said, it sounds as if I should be asking HMRC for us to have UK tax residency, even though, as year-round inhabitants in Spain, we would usually become fiscal residents here? Just double-checking I've correctly interpreted what you've said please? Many thanks.

Don't get tied up on numbers as even if you are in Spain for more than half the year you need to look at your tax domicile which is not the same as residency. It gets very complicated and you may need advice.
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Re: REGISTER OF FOREIGN NATIONALS

Postby marcliff » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:51 pm

Niktam wrote:Thanks Marcliff. My husband and I live in Spain permanently, early retirees, so no income in Spain, but we own a house here and pay for private healthcare. Hubby has a military pension, which has to be taxed and paid in the UK, I have two private pensions and rental income from a property we own in the UK. From what you've said, it sounds as if I should be asking HMRC for us to have UK tax residency, even though, as year-round inhabitants in Spain, we would usually become fiscal residents here? Just double-checking I've correctly interpreted what you've said please? Many thanks.

Don't get tied up on numbers as even if you are in Spain for more than half the year you need to look at your tax domicile which is not the same as residency. It gets very complicated and you may need advice.



You can't get UK tax residency (Your centre of vital interest) if you live in Spain permanently. You have to have property in UK and live there for a minimum of 3 months for that to happen. You cannot be taxed in Spain on your military pension as you can't be taxed twice on the same income (dual taxation rules). It can be taken into account to assess the level of taxation, though, even though it is not taxed.
Any tax paid in UK will be taken into account when you complete your tax return here.
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Re: REGISTER OF FOREIGN NATIONALS

Postby Tootandploot » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:19 am

Thanks Marcliff, it's interesting to note that residents are treated differently to non residents. How do we stand re Health care if we are reside in both countries and are below pensionable age. Would EHIC cover us and be acceptable? We probably spend on average 3/4 months in Spain and remainder in UK although that could reverse, if my employer feels benevolent when I ask the question?
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