UK Government "Yellowhammer" report in Sunday Times

In reality the reason why there is so much differing conjecture over what bozo's tactics might or might not be or whether he is smarter than the average bear is because he doesn't really have a plan and his minders have a full time job keeping his feet out of his big loose mouth - his pronouncements and promises swing in the wind depending on his audience. It will be interesting to see how he comes out of the talks with Macron & Merkel.
The fact is he is a self seeking, lying, untrustworthy individual who is a total embarrassment to our country and unworthy of being our PM. Lets hope the opponents of no deal can get their act together and rid us of this pernicious inept lot before they damage us even further.

maisiesdad wrote:In reality the reason why there is so much differing conjecture over what bozo's tactics might or might not be or whether he is smarter than the average bear is because he doesn't really have a plan and his minders have a full time job keeping his feet out of his big loose mouth - his pronouncements and promises swing in the wind depending on his audience. It will be interesting to see how he comes out of the talks with Macron & Merkel.

The fact is he is a self seeking, lying, untrustworthy individual who is a total embarrassment to our country and unworthy of being our PM. Lets hope the opponents of no deal can get their act together and rid us of this pernicious inept lot before they damage us even further.

But thats the nature of politicians these days. The point is so is the other side, so you need to fight like with like. Macron is a disgusting human being who has authorised his Police to use lethal force against his own people lkegally protesting. He is but one bullet away from a French Peterloo - hes already had a Tianamen Square event, but ofc the refusal of the British media to cover it in the way they are gleefully covering Hong Kong (and just look at the difference) is why its unknown inside the EU. Hes a gnats whisker from destroying french democracy. These are the sort of people in the EU we are having to deal with.

Once upon a day, politicians wernt paid, hence the only people who could afford to be polticians were people with a private income. Hence we had Whigs and Liberals, but both were from the monied classes. Hence many politicans were rich people who wanted to do good for society - thus all the civil and social advances of the Victorians. In Victorian times not many politicians saw it as a way to get rich - you had to start out rich in the first place!

The rot began when we started paying politicians. And when we started paying stupid money and stupid expenses, the profession started attracting greedy, self centered people who saw politician as way to enrich themselves and fill thier bank accounts.

Thats exacty whats happening here - ive mentioned before people like Grieve and Heseltine, who's only motivation for being pro Eu is that they make £100k a year each out of Farm Subsidies. But its not just Tories. You get Labour MP's, people like David Lammy and Jess Phillips, raking in £150k - £200k a year in EXPENSES alone, employing there spouses and kids on expenses, on top of their £75k MP's salary. All milking the gravy train. And the EU is even worse for gravy training, which is why so many MP's are all for it, Look at the KInnock tribe, between them the Kinnocks have made about £12 million out the EU and Parliament. Not bad forthe son of a Pit Labourer.

Blair, Mandelson, Clegg, Fallon..they have ALL become very rich milking the EU/UK gravy train. Blair has made about £10m out the EU one way or another, (and another £10m out the Gulf War) , and Mandelson got two fat pensions out the EU and a Knighthood, and hes possibly the most corrupt amoral person alive today.

It wont stop unless you make the profession unnattractive to people of this type - greedy, selfish, self centered, and moey grabbing. Personally id set MP's pay at the same as the National Average - which would be an incentive to try and improve the country. Id allow almost no expenses. Id have large blocks of flats owned by the government, each MP woud lhave one allocated to him free, (none of this house allowance, paying people mortgages for them on 2nd homes), id have an Admin Staff Pool you get two random allocated to you (no staffing expenses), and Govt owned cars and driver for ministers , and petrol expenses (50p/mile) or railway vouchers, and lunncheon vouchers for the rest. Id make it so no one could use being an MP as a way to line thier pockets.

Id also expect MP's to turn up every day Parliament is sitting, unless they were on Parliamentary business - just like any other job the rest of us do, you're expected to turn up when you are being paid. None of this turning up in a taxi, signing in , then clearing off home, just to get your £350 Day Allowance That way youd start attracting only people who wanted to do social good. It worked in Victorian times.

The sewer wants draining, but then we have to stop the rats from returning.

Maybe the sewer wants draining...

Perhaps start with n unelected Prime Minister and his cronys..

.....

Dave c wrote:Load of old tosh hakeredude

Come back Guy Fawkes all is forgiven,

Shiva wrote:

Dave c wrote:Load of old tosh hakeredude

Well hakeredude is entitled to his views but on the whole I have to agree with this succinct summing up.

Why is lying Boris wanting to change anything, has he forgotten he voted for it.

mondo wrote:Maybe the sewer wants draining...

Perhaps start with n unelected Prime Minister and his cronys..


.....

Well, no Thats just the sort of unreasonable false statement we get from the extremists. Boris was put into power because he was elected leader by the 140,000 members of the Conservative party, a process thats perfectly legal and constitutional, and has operated as such for at least 140 years. All the other parties use exactly the same method, and so the same accusation can be levelled at various other party leaders oiver the last hundred years.

What about Gordon Brown, for example, who became PM on the vote of one single man -Tony Blair. There wasnt even a vote of Labour party members, he was just given the job by his mate on the nod.

And when you look at the EU its even worse. The 5 EU p[residents are not at all elected by the people, and are selected from bureacrats and put into place by less than 100 people, none of whom have a mandate in a general election from the 400m peopel of europe.

At least with UK politicians, they are accountable in a general election, even Gordon Brown. The unelected presidents and vice presidents of the Eu are by any measure entirely unaccountable. There is no method in Eu law to remove Junkers of Barnier from Office. There is no procedure to make them accountable to the people. They are entirely immune from any form of accountability or judgement by the people.

THAT is a far worse situation.

So, whatever methods we have been using in Uk for the last 1000 years to elect leaders, its is a country mile more democratic and of the people than anything the Eu has. The fact is of the 27 prime ministers since 1900, only 11 have led the party into a GE to become PM. The other 16 all have got the job by default or by a members vote. Even Ramsey McDonald got the job from his mate.

Your accusation is not really a balanced or reasonable view, considering the above.

Dave c wrote:Load of old tosh hakeredude

Here we have a perfect example of the intolerance thats become the normal in UK politics, and its part of what has poisoned it.

Im happy to have a friendly debate with anyone on almost any subject, but if I disagee with somone ,ill do it in a friendly way. I wouldnt just dismiss it without explaining why I have done so.

To merely wave away somones view with a cursory insult really is at least just base intolerance, and poor manners , or shows that the person who makes such a remark has no debate, no arguments, and lacks critical thinking skills.

But hey ho, its a consequence of the times....

Whilst I try not to get into discussions about the EU on the Quesada General threads (surely it should be in the off topic bit) there are quite a few ridiculous comments coming up.
MPs don't turn up in parliament, sign for their expenses and go away. The Lords do and they aren't elected MPs.
The EU will do worse from Brexit than UK? Dream on. Most economists (you know, those people who actually know things) reckon UK will do far worse. It's already seen the currency drop, manufacturing down to its lowest level for 12 years and inward investment (foreign) down over 30%. Even worse for inward investment which has dropped even more.

And we've been electing MPs for a 1000 years? Someone needs a history lesson.
It wasn't until 1832 (the great reform act) that voting was given to the wider population and, even then, only to men owning property with an annual income of £10, so about 3% of the population. It was only in the late 1800s that more people were allowed to vote. That was 1885 so I make it not much more than 100 years rather than a 1000. After all, their was no parliament back in 1019.

Sinn Fein remains "abstemtious" not because of Brexit but because they won't talk the loyal oath so bringing them into the Brexit debate is a bit of a misnomer.

Loads of other misinformed rubbish being spouted but this is not, IMO, the place to discuss it.
People have their strong views either way but resorting to lies to prove their point is, quite frankly, pointless.

We are out, very soon. Already the government under Boris have backtracked on two very important points that will affect those of us living here. The stopping of free movement and the stopping of free healthcare for EU citizens immediately will have strong implications. The agreements put into place by Spain (and other EU countries) to allow UK citizens to keep their existing rights are based on the UK giving reciprocal agreements. Now they've backtracked on that then the EU countries could say the promises they made no longer exist due to the UK changing its stance.

I think it best to "wait and see" and revisit this subject after UK leaves, not second guess (and pretty naively come to that) on what will or won't happen.

Bye bye.