Register ourself in Rojales/Quesada

marcliff wrote:

Paul58 wrote:I once considered registering on the padron, even though I spend less than 180 days in Spain per year. My reasoning being that If I accidently spend longer than 90 days on a visit I would be considered legal. However, once signed on the padron you are documented as a spanish resident and as a Spanish resident you can't drive a UK registered car in Spain.

Don't make things up. Being on the padron does not, ever, no way whatsoever, make you a Spanish resident.

If only it were that easy.

Sorry my mistake, I got a little confused reading this....... https://www.gov.uk/guidance/residency-requirements-in-spain
It states that you must register as resident and on the padron if you're staying longer than 3 months. I thought that you could sign on the padron without becoming resident.

See, kjellv ... It's a disputed topic on the forum! Basically it is not necessary for you to register, if you do register the Town hall gets some more money. But it is not compulsory and as you can see it remains debated as to whether or not nonresidents should. The Town hall leaflet explains their position.

Everyone that owns a property in Spain should register on the pardon.
Far to many people complain about bins not being emptied also road conditions etc etc.
The main reason for the problem.
IS PEOPLE DO NOT REGISTER ON THE PADROM.
So money is not allocated to get the work and services required.
JUST DO IT.

SIMPLE

I have checked with the Citizens Advice Bureaux (Spain) and they say that the Law states that one has to be a Resident to be able to sign on the Padron. Any council that allows a non resident to sign on the Padron is therefore breaking the Law.
You can understand councils wanting everyone to sign on the Padron as they receive funds from the government for everyone who does. Any council found to be flouting this law can be heavily fined.

You can only be on the Padron if you are a resident. This is from the government agency responsible for population statistics in Spain. They are the INE - Institute Nacional de Estadisticas.

Toda persona que viva en España está obligada a inscribirse en el Padrón del municipio en que resida habitualmente. Quien viva en varios municipios deberá inscribirse únicamente en el que habite durante más tiempo al año.

Every person who lives in Spain must register on the Padron of the municipality in which they have their habitual residence. Whoever lives in various municipalities must only register where they live for the greater part of the year.

https://www.ine.es/metodologia/t20/t20302

We all know for tax purposes that your habitual residence is where you have your permanent home. If you declare yourself on the Pádron you are saying that your place of permanent residence is Spain and therefore you must pay your taxes in Spain.

I would love to be able to sign on the Padron as anybody inscribed on it can vote in Municipal Elections. It would hardly be fair if as a non resident I could skew the result of local elections by having a vote


Bee

If you sign on the padron no problem but be prepared to pay your taxes in Spain as you are as per the Goverment rules declaring yourself as a resident so a full tax return must be completed every year, failure to do so can get you a large tax bill you cannot complain as you have declared your self a resident.

william wrote:If you sign on the padron no problem but be prepared to pay your taxes in Spain as you are as per the Goverment rules declaring yourself as a resident so a full tax return must be completed every year, failure to do so can get you a large tax bill you cannot complain as you have declared your self a resident.

You can be a non-fiscal resident in Spain. If you intend to live here more than 3 months but less than 6 months in a year you should become a non fiscal resident. To do that, you need to be on the padron which is also valid for your time in Spain.

As a non fiscal resident in Spain you are only liable to pay tax on earnings in Spain such as rental income etc. which is the same for everyone.

If you are going to, or intend to, live in Spain for longer than 6 months each year then you register yourself as a fiscal resident and you are then liable for tax on all your worldwide income.

Signing on the padron does not declare yourself as a resident as that is a local register. To become either a non-fiscal or fiscal resident then you need to go on to the National register (for UK citizens, at the moment, that means on the register of foreign EU citizens residing in Spain) which is done at a National Police station.

From the UK.gov website:

British nationals who plan on living in Spain for more than 3 months must register as a resident and on the padron at their town hall


If you have certificate of residence the town hall will contact you every 5 years from the date you register to confirm you still live in the town and wish to remain on the padron.


If you don't have a certificate of residence the town hall will contact you every 2 years and may remove you from the padron if they are unable to confirm you still live in the town.


Simply signing on the padron, and it's not only Rojales that does this, does not make you a resident. Not at all.

And from a solicitors website when someone asked if being on the padron would affect their residency application:

No def­in­itely not, the fact that you have been on the padrón prior to be­ing res­id­ent will have no af­fect on your res­id­en­cia ap­plic­a­tion.
A solicitors' website points out that some town halls will not allow you to sign on the padron unless you are a resident. Some, not all.

So to do it legally, you should sign on the padron and get non-fiscal residency if you intend to remain in Spain between 3 and 6 months each year. Pointing out that doing so is illegal is both contradictory and unhelpful.

You do not pay taxes until you become a fiscal resident (by being here more than 6 months) and completing a tax return (and the first one will contain a form 100) but not simply by signing on the padron.

A personal example of this is that when we moved over and took out residency in January 2011, we owned two properties which we had bought as non-residents. We sold a flat in July 2011 and went through the solicitors who retained the 3% that non-residents have to pay. When I queried this, I was told that we were not classed as fiscal residents until our first tax return (done in March 2012 for the year 2011) so had to pay the 3% tax.

So, whilst being on the padron (from day 1 to get our SIP cards) and the residency from the same time we moved over, we were still not classed as full residents until we had completed the first tax return a year later. We also had to pay the co-payment for prescriptions until that was done.

Marcliff my reading of that 3 month requirement is for people who move to another EU country with the intention of becoming residents. You are required to fill in the EX18 form which is the form you use for applying for residence and you must fall into one of the various categories and fulfil the requirements. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/residency-r ... a-resident . Also once you are living in a town and it is your only permanent residence (not a holiday home)then you can be on the Padron. Indeed all the illegal immigrants living permanently in Torrevieja were encouraged to register themselves on the Padron so that their children could go to school and so that they could avail of health services. It also served to verify that they had been in Spain for the 5 year requirement.

Bee

With respect, Bee, it doesn't say that at all. It says anyone who intends to stay more than 3 months should register their residency and does not even mention taking up permanent residency.

Under EU rules, EU citizens have the right to remain in a member country for a period of up to 3 months with no other conditions. If they wish to reside longer then 3 months then conditions can apply. In Spain, that is registering on the register of foreign EU citizens residing in Spain.

That the authorities don't bother chasing up people who don't is neither here nor there and they don't even bother checking you coming in or out at the moment. (May change after Brexit or it may not - I'm not second guessing that one).

Another point, we were on the padron at Orihuela Costa as non-residents (they allowed you to do it back then) but we never received any voting cards or notification of voting. Not sure but maybe that is also tied up to whether you have officially declared your residency (it's the reason they made the NIE forms only valid for 3 months at one time so you could formalise your status if you were resident or not, part of the EX18 application had a box for residency or non residency).

However, if Rojales (and plenty of other ayuntamientos) allow you to be on the padron then why not?

It seems to be only those who are not resident in the Rojales area that seem to have a problem with this.

Thank you marcliff but I find the way it is written on the UK website very confusing. I know the requirement about over the 3 months and under the 183 days but if you did this every year I wonder are you supposed to make a fresh application each time? It sounds a right pain in the butt.

Bee