Rules for 2021

Sage wrote:I'd like to know why the EU think it's to their advantage to add these restrictions.

I see no benefits for the EU.

The UK must believe there are no benefits in introducing the same or they would reciprocate the arrangement.

To be fair the EU haven't added any new restrictions. These restrictions have always been in place but, while UK was in the EU, they've not been enforced.

Ok I wasn't aware of that.
But it doesn't change the fact that long term UK visitors to Spain spend millions of Euros. Spain will loose that business/ income. The sensible thing to do would be to relax the rules, allow people to stay longer and enjoy the increased income.

Sage wrote:....UK visitors to Spain spend millions of Euros. Spain will loose that business/ income....

We are talking about, what, 50,000, a 100,000 UK long stayers? Are you really suggesting that Spain’s economy would be crippled by them being restricted to a total of 183 days a year?

What time period would you advocate or do you think there shouldn’t be a limit?

Glassfull wrote:

Sage wrote:....UK visitors to Spain spend millions of Euros. Spain will loose that business/ income....

We are talking about, what, 50,000, a 100,000 UK long stayers? Are you really suggesting that Spain’s economy would be crippled by them being restricted to a total of 183 days a year?

What time period would you advocate or do you think there shouldn’t be a limit?

"Them" were always restricted to 183 days a year. The alteration is in the allocation of the time spent which limits the allocation of those days.

I find it fascinating. Previously you could spend 182 days in Spain. From January it is 180 days annually but defined by tranches of time within any 180 day period. However, its all about the allocation of those allotted days. The consideration that is going into it all (myself included) and the buggering around, to spend almost identical (legal) time in the country but at allotted intervals seems madness to me. You can spend the same time here, just only do so when you stretch it out rather than in a continuous chunk

Another example of illogical EU rules

PGA wrote:
"Them" were always restricted to 183 days a year. The alteration is in the allocation of the time spent which limits the allocation of those days.

I find it fascinating. Previously you could spend 182 days in Spain. From January it is 180 days annually but defined by tranches of time within any 180 day period. However, its all about the allocation of those allotted days. The consideration that is going into it all (myself included) and the buggering around, to spend almost identical (legal) time in the country but at allotted intervals seems madness to me. You can spend the same time here, just only do so when you stretch it out rather than in a continuous chunk

I think you'll find that, under EU rules, freedom of movement always meant you could only spend 3 months in the EU without registering your stay. You could stay up to 6 months but you, officially, had to take out non fiscal residency if you stayed longer than 3 months.
As no checks were ever made on us coming from a EU country, nobody ever bothered about the overstaying.

UK and France had a special agreement where no formal registration document was required but you did, officially, need one for Spain. How many actually did that?

So this is nothing new. It's simply that not being in the club anymore the dates of arrival and departure, as they are for other non-EU countries, will be logged and registered. Like my Russian neighbours who own property here but only come out for less than the 3 month period as they tell me they would be banned for coming back for a year.

Try overstaying the 3 month period in the States. Even by one day and they often ban you for life.

I very much doubt there are that many who do come over for 6 months. After all, the "official" number of British who actually live in Spain is only around 240,000. We all know how rubbish that figure is as it is probably closer to a million.

I have lived, owned property and paid taxes in Spain for 8 years but only found out about the 3 month restriction afer Brexit. Residencia at that time wasnt considered a requirement, it was more just an option. Spain has just turned a blind eye to these restrictions for many years. It wasnt mentioned when I bought my house in 2006.

Brexit highlighted the issues and thousands of Brits have been running round like headless chickens for the last year trying to make themselves legal. I sincerely hope that once things settle down we can get on with life. Unfortunately Spain has a habit of introducing new laws and then not properly enforcing them, which will probably cause more confusion in future.

marcliff wrote:

PGA wrote:
"Them" were always restricted to 183 days a year. The alteration is in the allocation of the time spent which limits the allocation of those days.

I find it fascinating. Previously you could spend 182 days in Spain. From January it is 180 days annually but defined by tranches of time within any 180 day period. However, its all about the allocation of those allotted days. The consideration that is going into it all (myself included) and the buggering around, to spend almost identical (legal) time in the country but at allotted intervals seems madness to me. You can spend the same time here, just only do so when you stretch it out rather than in a continuous chunk

I think you'll find that, under EU rules, freedom of movement always meant you could only spend 3 months in the EU without registering your stay. You could stay up to 6 months but you, officially, had to take out non fiscal residency if you stayed longer than 3 months.
As no checks were ever made on us coming from a EU country, nobody ever bothered about the overstaying.

UK and France had a special agreement where no formal registration document was required but you did, officially, need one for Spain. How many actually did that?

So this is nothing new. It's simply that not being in the club anymore the dates of arrival and departure, as they are for other non-EU countries, will be logged and registered. Like my Russian neighbours who own property here but only come out for less than the 3 month period as they tell me they would be banned for coming back for a year.

Try overstaying the 3 month period in the States. Even by one day and they often ban you for life.

I very much doubt there are that many who do come over for 6 months. After all, the "official" number of British who actually live in Spain is only around 240,000. We all know how rubbish that figure is as it is probably closer to a million.

The voice of reason and fact!

The vast majority of income Spain enjoys from tourism is from is from regular tourists who come for their obligatory fortnight and the 90 in ANY ROLLING 180 day rule will not affect them in the slightest.

Many so called 'Swallows' will very likely still come for 3 months so any loss of income from that quarter will be limited to any extentions to that which they now will not be able to indulge in.

To put the numbers into perspective, in 2019 income from tourism accounted for 14.6% of Spains GDP, tourists from Britain accounted for a little less than 1/4 of the total, 24% or 3.5% of GDP.

How much of that 3.5% might be attributable to Swallows or holiday home owners over staying their 90 days is probably unknowable but I think if we guessed at an exceptionally generous 1% it hardly adds up to the 'collapse' or 'bankruptcy' some envisage or predict.

[quote="Jonnno"]I have lived, owned property and paid taxes in Spain for 8 years but only found out about the 3 month restriction afer Brexit. Residencia at that time wasnt considered a requirement, it was more just an option. Spain has just turned a blind eye to these restrictions for many years. It wasnt mentioned when I bought my house in 2006.

The trouble is, for a lot of folk now that the residencia document is so vital when beforehand fiscal residency was enough, not all now meet the requirements



My friend has been autonomo for 4 yrs working hard to build up his business and paying taxes business rates social security ect. Has a sip card. Under retirement age. Has been told that he does not meet the financial requirements for residency and must also shell out for healthcare insurance. Therefore is going to throw the towel in and go back to uk. I know a few folks in same position as thier works contracts are not enough to get them residency. Spain will be full of pensioners and the young folk will go elsewhere. And come next year only the better off pensioners will be financially eligible to apply because of the ridiculous criteria

Let’s hope it will apply to all the Spaniards living in the UK?