Good Immigration Lawyer required

Sorry to disappoint the subscribers who make up their minds that innocent persons have no
rights
Lets get to the facts, This couple have been in Spain 2 months, have declared their earnings
to the French tax authority, are still members of CPAM and have all the necessary documents except
Residency for settling in Spain.
It is the obstinate immigrant authority in Alicante who refuse to accept their French Residency.
For this reason alone they need the services of a good Immigration Lawyer to fight for their
legal rights

Maybe I misread that they had been absent from France for 3 years (as it would appear did Paul58) so sorry for that.

That doesn't change the thrust of my argument that the rule linked to only applies to non EU citizens not Brits.

I also repeat they if they have obtained new S1's for Spain then in effect that automatically cancelled their earlier ones which they used to join CPAM. The NHS will inform CPAM of the fact which in turn will result in an immediate voiding of their CPAM membership and now it's just a case of when the letter from CPAM demanding a return of their Carte Vitale's arrives.

Not that it changes anything but do they or do they not have the post Brexit residence cards?

Have to admit I am confused with dates as well. 2 months is a very short time where Spanish beaucracy is concerned. I would contact someone like Costa Luz Lawyers and see if they can tell them exactly what their rights are and how to proceed as they seem to be experts on Brexit and Spanish immigration law.
I am sure they can put them in touch with counterparts in Alicante. The only question is: does their current French Residency Card (whatever the official name is?) as UK citizens entitle them to Spanish Residency as a retired couple post Brexit.

https://costaluzlawyers.es/our-team/

Bee

Darro wrote:Maybe I misread that they had been absent from France for 3 years (as it would appear did Paul58) so sorry for that.

That doesn't change the thrust of my argument that the rule linked to only applies to non EU citizens not Brits.

I also repeat they if they have obtained new S1's for Spain then in effect that automatically cancelled their earlier ones which they used to join CPAM. The NHS will inform CPAM of the fact which in turn will result in an immediate voiding of their CPAM membership and now it's just a case of when the letter from CPAM demanding a return of their Carte Vitale's arrives.

Not that it changes anything but do they or do they not have the post Brexit residence cards?

The elderly couple have the post Brexit Identity Cards issued on 13/4/21 similar in shape and size to the Spanish Residencia

prefect wrote:

Darro wrote:Maybe I misread that they had been absent from France for 3 years (as it would appear did Paul58) so sorry for that.

That doesn't change the thrust of my argument that the rule linked to only applies to non EU citizens not Brits.

I also repeat they if they have obtained new S1's for Spain then in effect that automatically cancelled their earlier ones which they used to join CPAM. The NHS will inform CPAM of the fact which in turn will result in an immediate voiding of their CPAM membership and now it's just a case of when the letter from CPAM demanding a return of their Carte Vitale's arrives.

Not that it changes anything but do they or do they not have the post Brexit residence cards?

The elderly couple have the post Brexit Identity Cards issued on 13/4/21 similar in shape and size to the Spanish Residencia

Like this one?

prefect wrote:The elderly couple have the post Brexit Identity Cards issued on 13/4/21 similar in shape and size to the Spanish Residencia

In that case it lends even more credence to my comment about them not being entitled to move residence due to not having been non EU citizens as defined for that right.

Their refusal letter should give more than just "not resident in France" as a reason so if you could post it with any identifying details redacted we may be able to glean more from what's been written.

It appears what Darro says is correct in that under the WA - Withdrawal Agreement- UK citizens are not entitled to Free Movement within the EU with a Residence Card and the French Carte-de- Sejour/Resident Card cannot be automatically exchanged for a TIE in Spain
Quote:
"So in short, no, you cannot transfer your French residency under Brexit to Spanish. If you want to live in Spain, you have to apply for a suitable visa first and follow the requirements laid down" end quote. It would be interesting to know why the Solicitor said to live under the radar for 3 years. What significance does the 3 years have?
https://www.expatforum.com/threads/fren ... s.1518309/

Bee

I think the rules are different if you have acquired permanent residency in France, that is been a resident for over 5 years. You then take on the status of long term resident - EU and it doesn't matter if you are a EU citizen or not. According to the French site on moving, you will retain your long term residency in France until you have completed 5 years in your new EU country when you become a permanent resident there and give up your French residency.

You have to apply within 3 months of arrival or you can apply at a Spanish consulate in France but it's the permanent (or, as UK calls it, indefinite leave to remain) 5 years that is important.

You still need proof of income and medical insurance, either state or private.

And I feel it depends on how long they were resident in France, under 5 years then temporary so cannot transfer. Over 5 years and permanent so able to.

The EU.ac college puts it this way:
However, under a separate EU Directive, once a UK citizen (or any other third country national) has been resident in a member state for five years, they obtain to the right to move to another member state for longer than three months for purposes of employment, study or training.

And Immigration portal states:
The EU long-term residence permit is a permanent residence title, which enables you to live and work in any EU member country.
To be eligible, third-country nationals must have lived in the EU country where they apply, for at least five years. The best thing about an EU long-term residence permit is that it is permanent and automatically renewable after a period, and it facilitates the move to a different EU country.
Therefore it is the 5 year permanent residency that is important.

And just to press home the points in the post I made above, this is the actual EU Council Directive concerning the status of third country nationals who are long term residents
EU Directive 2003/109/EC

And a couple of cherry picked points

"The European Council, at its special meeting in Tampere on 15 and 16 October 1999, stated that the legal status of third-country nationals should be approximated to that of Member States' nationals and that a person who has resided legally in a Member State for a period of time to be determined and who holds a long-term residence permit should be granted in that Member State a set of uniform rights which are as near as possible to those enjoyed by citizens of the European Union."

"In order to constitute a genuine instrument for the integration of long-term residents into society in which they live, long-term residents should enjoy equality of treatment with citizens of the Member State in a wide range of economic and social matters, under the relevant conditions defined by this Directive."

"Provision should be made that the right of residence in another Member State may be exercised in order to work in an employed or self-employed capacity, to study or even to settle without exercising any form of economic activity"

I think that clears up this bit about EU citizens and third country citizens being treated the same once permanent residency has been obtained.

Therefore, in the case in question, if the couple had been residing in France for a period of more than 5 years and been granted permanent residency in France then the immigration authorities in Alicante are wrong.

If, however, they had been resident in France for less than 5 years and had not been granted permanent residency there then it would appear the immigration authorities in Alicante are correct.

Perhaps the advice to wait 3 years was to allow their French residency to become permanent?

However, if their French residency cards were only issued on 13/04/21 then they would still have a good few years left.