Talk Quesada forum

So, after today's "sort of" an agreement regarding the rights of both EU citizens in UK and UK citizens in the EU after Brexit, some of you may be interested in the draft agreement which affects those of us living in Spain.
I would point out, in particular, paragraph 19 of the attached document dated today:
Citizens' Rights-A Detailed Consensus

For those who don't like opening PDF files, the relevant bit is:

Individuals will maintain all their rights, including equal treatment, within the limits of Articles 18, 21, 45 and 49 TFEU, Article 24 of Directive 2004/38/EC and Regulation (EU) No 492/2011 including rights of workers, self-employed, students and economically inactive citizens with respect to social security, social assistance, health care, employment, selfemployment and managing an undertaking (for example, the right to equal treatment in the participation in the capital of EU companies or firms), education (including higher education) and training, social and tax advantages. Individuals will maintain all their rights, including equal treatment, within the limits of Articles 18, 21, 45 and 49 TFEU, Article 24 of Directive 2004/38/EC and Regulation (EU) No 492/2011 including rights of workers, self-employed, students and economically inactive citizens with respect to social security, social assistance, health care, employment, selfemployment and managing an undertaking (for example, the right to equal treatment in the participation in the capital of EU companies or firms), education (including higher education) and training, social and tax advantages.

Paragraph 20 goes on to say that "Life-long protection for the rights holder is guaranteed by the Withdrawal Agreement."

Also note that these rights will apply to anyone who has residence on the specified date which is stated as the date of the UK withdrawal. Anyone taking out residency after that date will not be accorded the same rights. The actual date is not shown as we do not know the actual date UK will withdraw, whether it will be March 2019 or whether the real withdrawal date will be after a transition period.

It seems to me and please correct me if I am wrong that not a lot has changed and it wouldn’t matter whether, for the purposes of this query whether you reside in the UK OR Spain as the right to free movement will still apply so for those who own homes in Spain but reside in the U.K. it isn’t going to matter? I don’t wish to start a debate about this but would appreciate some clarification on my understanding or misunderstanding if that’s the case.

No, I don't think so. Those agreements are for those who currently reside in Spain or who do so before the date UK leaves the EU. If you are not resident before then, it will not matter whether you own property or not. The movement bit will (and only in my very humble opinion) stay unchanged except the amount of time you spend in Spain could be limited to the 3 months period twice a year (as it is for non EU citizens though I doubt visas will be required as there are many countries where visas aren't necessary).
The important thing will be taking out residency after UK leaves. I think that then you would be subject to the rules which apply to non-EU residents currently. This has great implications on the amount you need to show that you can support yourself. I am particularly talking of pensioners here.
For an EU citizen it is around 6 to 700 euro a month or €8,400 a year (it was €665 a month in 2016). For a non-EU resident that figure is nearer €30,000 a year ($32,000) plus extra for spouse and children.
Then there's the matter of healthcare. Those currently residents will continue to have health costs protected. After UK leaves the EU they won't so the S1 form might not be available to people coming to live here after that and you would have to (like non-EU citizens over retirement age do now) show private medical insurance (expensive if you are over 65).
For non-pensioners, those working here and resident at the moment will have their rights protected. After we leave, you may require a work permit and show the same requirements as a non-EU citizen.
The document I linked to specifically talks about the rights of those who are currently resident here but does not infer the same rights on future residents.
(Of course, I might be talking out of the proverbial and nothing at all will change).

And remember, when you fly into Alicante (or wherever) at the moment you come through as an EU arrival. International flights go through a different gate (you may have seen the cordoned off areas for those) which you will have to go through in the future whether you're resident or not (if UK can agree with the European Air Safety Agency which is regulated by the ECJ of course) as it will be classed as a non-EU flight.

Edited to add:
After searching, the proof of income requirement for a non-EU citizen was (in 2014) £2130 per month plus €532 extra for a spouse and each child.

Good afternoon,
As i understood health arrangements, it was an agreement between Spain & the U K long before either were members of the old EEC,of course i stand to be corrected.

suzi wong wrote:Good afternoon,
As i understood health arrangements, it was an agreement between Spain & the U K long before either were members of the old EEC,of course i stand to be corrected.

If you have a reference for that I would be grateful. All I can find is that the healthcare is a shared EEC (going back a while) agreement and that those living in Spain before we joined had to have private insurance and visitors were required to have travel insurance.

I also understood that , Spain did have agreements before EU but once we all joined the EU rules superseded the previous , so UK citizens will not have the same benefits after leaving the EU.one of the downsides of Brexit

Now, I didn't post the link to start all this up again on what did, what will, what may, what should etc happen.
Purely to show that, with today's date on the document, those who are resident now will have their rights protected including healthcare as I know it has been a worry for some.
If it's all agreed then nothing will change for those already resident here.
What will happen to others is pure conjecture but I assume the rules already in place for non-EU citizens will apply except for agreements made between individual countries, such as the dual tax agreement between UK and Spain.
Anything that is an agreement between the UK and the EU could (could) be liable to change. Who knows, UK could come to a different arrangement with Spain but that's pure guesswork.

marcliff wrote:Now, I didn't post the link to start all this up again on what did, what will, what may, what should etc happen.
.

Yes, lets not have any pointless argy bargy over this, Marcliff makes good points and so far so good, lets hope it holds over the rocky road of the next phase. What it does suggest is that moving to take up residency before March 2019 is a good idea if you are planning to move permanently, gives maximum chance of preserving benefits eg the S1 on health etc.

( though I thought the flights coming in and out were already basically " Schengen" and " non-Schengen" rather than EU or non-EU so all those from UK and Ireland ( which is not part of Schengen though staying in the EU) are already separate and have to go through passport control whereas a flight from eg Amsterdam doesn't...? )

Shiva wrote:

( though I thought the flights coming in and out were already basically " Schengen" and " non-Schengen" rather than EU or non-EU so all those from UK and Ireland ( which is not part of Schengen though staying in the EU) are already separate and have to go through passport control whereas a flight from eg Amsterdam doesn't...? )

Next time you come through Alicante and collect your luggage, have a look behind you and you'll see a cordoned off area (with red tape) which is for flights arriving from outside the EU and a different luggage carousel.