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Moving to Quesada and obtaining residency before Oct 31st ?

Discuss your questions about the EU and Brexit and what it means for Quesada and Spain

Re: Moving to Quesada and obtaining residency before Oct 31s

Postby Paul1000 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:44 pm

Re: Shiva - thanks for the response, makes good sense, i will follow this up.
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Re: Moving to Quesada and obtaining residency before Oct 31s

Postby Shiva » Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:46 pm

Paul1000 wrote:Re: Shiva - thanks for the response, makes good sense, i will follow this up.

Oh, just for info, it is not absolutely essential to get an NIE prior to residency, you can do it in one go ( the Alicante National Police Station can do both at same time, Wayne can arrange that) and you don't need an NIE first for a bank account either. Just in case that helps streamline things , but SGM would be able to advise you.
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Re: Moving to Quesada and obtaining residency before Oct 31s

Postby Sylwina » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:03 pm

PeteKnight wrote:If Brexit does happen and we are treated as visitors from outside the Shenzhen zone (which is basically what is proposed in the draft agreement) then the limits will be:

Maximum single stay - 90 days
Maximum stay per year - 183 days
Maximum stay in any 180 day period - 90 days.

It’s the last restriction (which doesn’t currently apply) that will be the limiting factor for people like yourself (and me).
At the moment, you can spend 90 days in Spain, leave for 1 day then return for another 90. Depending on how that falls with the beginning and end of the calendar year you could potentially return again provided you don’t exceed 183 per calendar year, but nobody is really able to monitor this anyway as passports aren’t being checked at the land border.

Under the Schengen rules, UK passports will be checked throughout Europe (+ Norway and Switzerland) and you’ll be limited to the 90 days in any rolling 180 day period.
We prefer to spend time in Spain during the summer months and this new toile would have an effect on us. We’re in Spain now, and our stay will be around 5 weeks. We’ll then come out again in early July and leave in early September. Under the new rules this wouldn’t be possible, as it would be more than 90 days in a -80 day rolling period.
And, as I said before, under the proposed new rules that’s 90 out of 180 days in Europe, so a city break to Paris, Rome or Berlin counts towards your 90 day allowing the zone.

Applying for Spanish residency isn’t the appropriate thing to do unless you plan to spend the majority of the year in Spain and have your finances taxed in Spain and your state healthcare provided in Spain as well

Pete.



Thank you For your helpful reply. I assumed it would be something like this but some much confusion out there. Only yesterday in a Weekender advert for lawyers wanting to help you with residency they say “we know the law and it clearly states that if you spend more than 90 days in Spain per year than you have to apply for a Spanish residency card.”
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Re: Moving to Quesada and obtaining residency before Oct 31s

Postby marcliff » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:39 pm

At the moment you are a EU resident. You can visit Spain for up to 3 months with no red tape, no registration or whatever. If you intend to stay over that 3 months then you should apply to go on the register of foreign EU nationals resident in Spain (what we call residency as shorthand).
This does not mean you become a resident and have to start paying taxes or anything like that. It is just an automatic thing that shows you have registered your presence in Spain for an extended period but are not a fiscal resident.
On the real life bit, not many people bother. You don't get immigration people coming round if you overstay the 3 months, nor do you get stopped at the airport and told you have overstayed your welcome. No, hardly any checks are carried out on when you arrive or when you leave. It's only fairly recently they have started checking passports on arrival at the airport but you still don't go through immigration with the passport when leaving, simply have it checked by the airport staff. Coming in by boat and the guys in the booth simply wave you through when you flash the maroon passport at them. Coming by road and France don't bother you coming off the ferry or the Eurostar and you can then go to any EU country for, it seems, as long as you like.
This is why many people have been living here for years but haven't taken out residency. Maybe they are worried they will be on some database somewhere and it's a way for the authorities to keep a check on you. Or maybe they think they will be giving up being British or something.
Does anyone know anyone who has been fined, kicked out, put in prison or anything for not actually signing on the residency? No, thought not.
This may change when passports will be routinely checked in and out. I doubt if we will need visas for the first 3 months but maybe they will be a bit stricter if you stay longer than that in future. It may be the old system of having an entry stamp with "valid until" written on it. Those of us already resident will probably have to show the ID card to avoid the until bit.
Try going a day over your allotted time in the USA, for example, and they can block you from ever entering the country again.

Now all this is purely conjecture. Until treaties, reciprocal agreements, nods and winks are all sorted out then we don't know what will happen. We don't even know if there will be a transition period or how long it will be although 20 months has been mooted.

Back to the question by paul1000 on when to sell your house. Firstly, don't worry too much about the CGT. It won't be much if you sell quickly and there are allowances built in as well. But don't think you can come over for 3 or 4 months and then apply as you have to prove when you entered the country which will be counted.
If you move over for less than 183 days in one year then you don't have to complete a tax return until the following year (in your case, you would submit one in 2021 for the financial year (Jan to Dec) of 2020. You wouldn't need to complete one in 2020 for a period of less than 6 months in 2019.

Just don't leave it too late. A couple up the road have been here for nearly 6 months and have only just got an appointment for their residency some time next week and they already have their NIE due to coming over as non-residents for some time.

As for applying for residency after UK leaves the EU, who knows? We may get some type of dispensation (after all, there are several Russians living near me and they don't seem to have problems coming in and out all the time) or maybe we will have to go down the third country route. The amount of income to prove you are financially stable varies greatly from around 800 euro a month (9600 per year) as an EU citizen up to 2500 per month (30,000 a year) for a non-EU citizen.

Perhaps we'll just have to wait and see.
Last edited by marcliff on Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moving to Quesada and obtaining residency before Oct 31s

Postby Deadeyedick » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:10 pm

Shiva wrote:The Paul1000 point:
"- Can anyone recommend an English speaking Gestor or Solicitor local to Quesada that I could maybe contact to discuss this ?"
I would suggest SGM Abogados. As part of Sylvia's team ( all English speaking) Wayne organises appointments etc for Residency, NIE etc.

One of the problems is likely to be that in the run up to 31 October if we are hearing for a crash out " no deal" Brexit it might be really hard to get an appointment at the National Police. That was the case in Jan, Feb and March this year when there was a rush on appointments as the first crunch date of 29 March loomed. Therefore going through SGM and Wayne you could possibly explicitly ask him to sort an appointment for you for eg September and he may be able to do that. You need to then get all your other ' dolls in a row' incl. getting Spanish bank account opened and with the required evidence of sufficient funds or income going into it. Also health insurance or the S1s if you're state pension age etc.
SGM ( you'll see they are recommended by many people on here) can also handle all your other legal stuff for house buying etc.

Re the capital gains point, I wouldn't worry about it ( yes I see you are thinking if you come second half of year Spain won't treat fiscal residency until following year,that might be right, I still haven't squared the changeover details) as even if you did get capital gains I understand ( from earlier Marcliff post!) that it would be Capital gains made on the gain from when you became fiscal residents. Which unless you live in an area of UK where house prices are shooting up daily ( do such places exist anymore?) is unlikely to break the bank...



Hi shiva. Can you tell me how much Wayne charges to get the residencia please.
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Re: Moving to Quesada and obtaining residency before Oct 31s

Postby Shiva » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:17 pm

It was SGM I paid as he works for them but I think it was about 140 euros ( approx.) As far as I remember. He takes you to the appointment and back again. ( He goes to wherever he gets the appointment, Alicante, Elche, Orihuela etc). Not cheap, but reliable. They also advise you on the paperwork needed.
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Re: Moving to Quesada and obtaining residency before Oct 31s

Postby Deadeyedick » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:28 pm

Shiva wrote:It was SGM I paid as he works for them but I think it was about 140 euros ( approx.) As far as I remember. He takes you to the appointment and back again. ( He goes to wherever he gets the appointment, Alicante, Elche, Orihuela etc). Not cheap, but reliable. They also advise you on the paperwork needed.



Thank you shiva, much appreciated.
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Re: Moving to Quesada and obtaining residency before Oct 31s

Postby Sylwina » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:20 pm

Further to the conversation below I spoke yesterday with the representatives from the British Consulate who are doing the rounds of the Costa Overseas Icelands. It was very helpful in that they confirmed to me that there is nothing that I as a non resident (Swallows as we are termed) can do or should be doing regarding future visits post Brexit. I was mainly exercised by the lack of clarity about signing on the Register of Foreigners if you stay in Spain longer than 90 days per year. The rep was emphatic that this was not practical for the Swallows (Visitors). She confirmed that although strictly speaking it was the law, it was intended for people who intended to live permanently in Spain and not Visitors. The Spanish Govt turns a blind eye to this law as it could not cope with registering and deregistering visitors.

Currently the likely situation is very much as summarised by Pete below. It will be a max 90 days stay in a 180 day period with a max annual stay of 180 days.. The bad news it is likely to be on the basis of calendar year trimesters not your own comings and goings.

So, no great revelations here but confirmation of the position from the horse’s mouth. For those of you who don’t have it already here is the web link I was given to keep abreast of any news
Gov.uk/living-in-Spain
Sylwina



Sylwina wrote:
PeteKnight wrote:If Brexit does happen and we are treated as visitors from outside the Shenzhen zone (which is basically what is proposed in the draft agreement) then the limits will be:

Maximum single stay - 90 days
Maximum stay per year - 183 days
Maximum stay in any 180 day period - 90 days.

It’s the last restriction (which doesn’t currently apply) that will be the limiting factor for people like yourself (and me).
At the moment, you can spend 90 days in Spain, leave for 1 day then return for another 90. Depending on how that falls with the beginning and end of the calendar year you could potentially return again provided you don’t exceed 183 per calendar year, but nobody is really able to monitor this anyway as passports aren’t being checked at the land border.

Under the Schengen rules, UK passports will be checked throughout Europe (+ Norway and Switzerland) and you’ll be limited to the 90 days in any rolling 180 day period.
We prefer to spend time in Spain during the summer months and this new toile would have an effect on us. We’re in Spain now, and our stay will be around 5 weeks. We’ll then come out again in early July and leave in early September. Under the new rules this wouldn’t be possible, as it would be more than 90 days in a -80 day rolling period.
And, as I said before, under the proposed new rules that’s 90 out of 180 days in Europe, so a city break to Paris, Rome or Berlin counts towards your 90 day allowing the zone.

Applying for Spanish residency isn’t the appropriate thing to do unless you plan to spend the majority of the year in Spain and have your finances taxed in Spain and your state healthcare provided in Spain as well

Pete.



Thank you For your helpful reply. I assumed it would be something like this but some much confusion out there. Only yesterday in a Weekender advert for lawyers wanting to help you with residency they say “we know the law and it clearly states that if you spend more than 90 days in Spain per year than you have to apply for a Spanish residency card.”
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